Hardened Concrete Nail

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> I've bent them plenty of times, but never like this. They usually break long before getting twisted like a pretzel.

So, when you set a nail like that in a cured concrete surface, don't you drill a pilot hole first?

(I trust you won't be so spendthrift as to throw this otherwise perfectly good nail away, but will build a small solar-powered furnace to straighten both it and the box of other bent nails I imagine you've accumulated over the years.)

I've managed to do that to MAGNAIL's and PK's. Usually though they just shear off about the last 1/4" you need to set a brass washer below grade to keep the snowplow from taking it out:-@

If I have to drill a hole I normally use a 6mm. countersunk head stainless steel machine stud. Once in it will never corrode - I've found them 30 years later, even in English weather, still shiny.

Being countersunk they drive in flush with the surface and are fairly immune to snowploughs, machine buckets, etc.

I drill 4.5 or 5mm. for a 6mm. stud and the threads crush as you drive it in giving a very solid fixing.

I thought you guys have been around...

> I've bent them plenty of times, but never like this. They usually break long before getting twisted like a pretzel.

I'm really surprised that you guys don't know the real purpose of these...Clearly these are used for "Micro-Offset shots"....When your Magnail can't occupy where you want to shoot...Like the precise corner of a building, or sedimentary rock with an igneous inclusion right where you want to mark the spot (They have a lot of that in Texas).

One of these babies does the trick nicely.

I'm pretty sure I read about this in Davis Foote and Kelly. I'll look it up again, because offset shots are soon coming to the top of my "to learn" list.:-D

I worked for a company that used those. Those short sawed off b&$^&@#$ were responsible for my busted fingers. It is hard to hand letter and put leroy on the paper with busted fingers.

They worked fine when you went tap, tap, tap enough for them to go in straight. If you hit them too hard near the end the head would come off.

Of course the PC was a hit it once or twice or hit the road kind of guy. He could not even get it done his way either.

Then I discovered paint sticks and star drills and have never used another concrete nail.

B-)

I see the problem, Jim. It's upside down!

I pre-drill with a 1/4" masonry bit and set these:

> (I trust you won't be so spendthrift as to throw this otherwise perfectly good nail away, but will build a small solar-powered furnace to straighten both it and the box of other bent nails I imagine you've accumulated over the years.)

I know a guy that was so tight, he actually bought a barrel of bent nails and paid his kid to straighten them - no kidding. I don't think the kid ever got all the way to the bottom of the barrel, but he did straighten thousands of nails.

What are those originally design for? Attaching lumber to concrete?

I believe so. They are about 1.50" long. They hold really well. No need to fill the hole with lead or anything. They can be countersunk too, if you finish with a 1/2".

I bought some those at Lowe's thinking they would be great to set in concrete structures, still waiting to use one though.

> I see the problem, Jim. It's upside down!

Wait, the pointy end goes down?

They can be really fast easy to set, which is neat, but they do not stand up to abuse as well as other options if used on a active construction site, for example. One thing that can be nice is to drive the top flush and then sent a punch for a tight point, or leave the plunger up for a string line. They make a special set tool for them also a round chisel with depression in the middle, I usually forgo the tool, set the fastener by hand, strike the pan head with a square chisel to drive the fastener into its initial position and then drive the plunger with a hammer.

They are not used to fasten lumber, more like electrical and other fixtures to the concrete sub ceiling, set with a powder actuated tool I believe.

> So, when you set a nail like that in a cured concrete surface, don't you drill a pilot hole first?

I use them as temporary control points in AC pavement, not concrete. The example pictured popped out of the AC -- along with a conical plug of pavement material -- just as I drove it flush.

For concrete I either use a 3-1/2" diamond saw (if I'm pre-setting control) or a carbide tile scorer (if on the fly; I carry one in my vest pocket) to make an X in the concrete.

> I use them as temporary control points in AC pavement, not concrete. The example pictured popped out of the AC -- along with a conical plug of pavement material -- just as I drove it flush.

I set 3/8" x 8" steel spikes for temporary control points in AC pavement and have never had a problem with them popping out. Of course, it helps to drill a pilot hole to get the thing started. A portable hammer drill does that quite well.

> I set 3/8" x 8" steel spikes for temporary control points in AC pavement

I think we have different conceptions of "temporary." Mine involves considerably less steel.

> I think we have different conceptions of "temporary." Mine involves considerably less steel.

Yeah, but my spikes are probably only about $0.50 per each, which is much less expensive than a trip to a minor emergency center to treat fingers on the losing end of a hammer blow to some tiny nail of the sort you've bent. :>