There are legal limitations to what can be done too. Suppose we pass a law that all boundaries will be resolved as soon as possible and enetered into the national cadaster.
strange that you mentioned the cadastre system. if a cadastral survey was made in the US then all these inconsistencies between ground and records would have been resolved and all succeeding resulting surveys would then be based on the cadastral records. a cadastral survey even on a county level would have resolved all internal parcels of that county.in short, all internal parcel areas should equal to county area. no overlapping/gaps within internal parcels.
as of now, you have surveyors using all those lower court statutes that suit them whenever they can't or won't sign their name/seal on a finding because they are not sure of their findings.
that is the most unprofessional practice of all, being paid for your work but you yourself won't sign off on your findings.
What's missing from your head, is the HISTORY of the monuments.
Do you know what it means to survey the NW1/4-SE1/4 of any Section??
Have you ever studied the Public Land Survey System?
Have you ever read the GLO notes? Have you ever studied the GLO plats?
What I am saying, is that your comments, are very much LIKE a new instrument man, who has been functioning as an inst man, for 6 wks, or so.
You are not "In the picture". You are "Outside the picture".
Like a technician, who thinks he gets it, and it is all measuring.
N
Ignorance is bliss, they say. Thus, we have identified the happiest person in the world.
[INDENT]
What's missing from your head, is the HISTORY of the monuments.
You still don't get it right?History?What about history?You, the client, the neighbor is not there 24/7 for the past 200 years since the monument was buried. I have clients who inherited a parcel out in the mountains and who did not even live in those parts until he inherited it. Neighbors? If you can find them then good luck. History is not history if it's not recorded. The fact that the client has a written & recorded plat is a piece of HISTORY in itself. So why can't you rely on that piece of history then since you are saying history is so important.
It seems that you are being selective in your search for "History" and I think I know the answer to that. It makes your work easier right?
Just pass what you can't fit as part of "History" and end all legal consequences. You have no liability for the work you just made right? Hey it's not my fault that your actual monuments do not conform to your description. Hey it's not my fault that you overpaid for the parcel of land by paying more than the actual area that you have monumented on the ground. Hey but you need to pay me for just saying "blame it on the first surveyor".So what were some of you saying about "Serving the Public"?
[/INDENT]
Ignorance is bliss, they say. Thus, we have identified the happiest person in the world.
Also receiving pay for doing something that you actually did not do is the best scam of them all.
Have you ever gone into a car shop to have your car repaired?Only to have the mechanic say, the damage was caused by the previous mechanic who bungled the repair?Only he can't repair it because he doesn't want to be liable for any further damage to it? But then he charges you for taking a look at your car and telling you something is wrong with it which you already know because that's the reason why you brought it to him in the first place.
Holy Cow, post: 396580, member: 50 wrote: Ignorance is bliss, they say. Thus, we have identified the happiest person in the world.
Someone is just trolling at this point.
It's comical, really.
FrancisH, post: 396586, member: 10211 wrote: Also receiving pay for doing something that you actually did not do is the best scam of them all.
Have you ever gone into a car shop to have your car repaired?Only to have the mechanic say, the damage was caused by the previous mechanic who bungled the repair?Only he can't repair it because he doesn't want to be liable for any further damage to it? But then he charges you for taking a look at your car?
In the words of the late great Richard Schaut, you are a dippy idiot.
FrancisH, post: 396573, member: 10211 wrote: you have surveyors using all those lower court statutes
Courts don't make Statute law, the legislature does that. If by lower court you mean the Trial Court, they have no power to make law. In the U.S. the constitution is the highest law of the land, then Statutes, then common law which are laws developed by the Appellate Courts over the past 1000 years or so.
Dave Karoly, post: 396591, member: 94 wrote: Courts don't make Statute law, the legislature does that. If by lower court you mean the Trial Court, they have no power to make law. In the U.S. the constitution is the highest law of the land, then Statutes, then common law which are laws developed by the Appellate Courts over the past 1000 years or so.
OK,like I said, I am a surveyor and I don't pretend to be a lawyer and as such I measure the land and leave the laws to the lawyer. But don't any lawyer tell me than 1 meter = 1.1 meter anywhere on this earth.
In the words of the late great Richard Schaut, you are a dippy idiot.
It takes one to know one.
FrancisH, post: 396593, member: 10211 wrote: OK,like I said, I am a surveyor and I don't pretend to be a lawyer and as such I measure the land and leave the laws to the lawyer. But don't any lawyer tell me than 1 meter = 1.1 meter anywhere on this earth.
Actually the meter has had 5-6 differing lengths by definition. The latest only came into being in the early 1980's so you should be good in Singapore; for now.
FrancisH, post: 396568, member: 10211 wrote: proof?actual present day measurements against deed description.since distance was recorded by surveyor 200 years ago, then if present distance differs above accepted survey tolerance then that's proof that it has moved.
Completely wrong. All it means is that you are neglecting to analyze for the creating "units".
Are you using your modern "accepted survey tolerance" or that of the time and methods setting the original monument?
I'm a little hesitant, to call you a troll.... ie, some surveyor posting for kicks. Stir the pot. Because I have HEARD this same line of logic, from too many people before. I have once believed it myself, when I was 16.
So, I try to help you forward. If you are a troll, you are a good troll... ie, it is quite the exercise to go back, and deal with these delusions you post.
What unfortunately comes to mind, is the way it was in communist countries, when a certian general was coming to town, and the towns people had heard that the general liked green things, ie, plants, and basic horticulture. So, they went and planted trees, and nice things, by the road he was to come. Trouble was, it was the wrong time of the year, and it all died. Then, in an emergency, they went and PAINTED the dead trees green, to make it all look nice. As he visited, a storm began blowing the dead leaves off. Or else he never visited... it was from a book, I don't remember the details.
This was all because they BELIEVED they could do anything....
And, this attitude, had got them in trouble.
I remember a surveyor of your persuasion. He thought NORTH SOUTH EAST AND WEST were ABSOLUTE. If the deed said, NORTH, that was what it meant. He'd take a sun shot, and go DUE NORTH. He did a few other things, that were odd, but, he eventually lost his license.
He did not comprehend what was actually going on.
N
Completely wrong. All it means is that you are neglecting to analyze for the creating "units".
Are you using your modern "accepted survey tolerance" or that of the time and methods setting the original monument?
I once surveyed a parcel dated early 1970/late 1960s. At that time only steel tape & transit (or the thoedolite) was available. When I compared today's output using total station & GPS, line distances were off less than ~20cm.
You seem to forget that if the survey followed basic check procedures - closed travers, direct/reverse observations, etc, errors are reduced.
This also applies to work done 200 years ago if surveyor did his job properly whether he was using a chain/alidade or transit his output should have met precision tolerance.
NOW if it was surveyed by someone who does not know what he was doing, then his output would not have met survey tolerance and his plat would be considered wrong. In short he committed a blunder in his measurements.
So if you want to accept his monuments on the ground as being sacred, then you have to accept the fact that his recorded plat is erroneous.
If on the other hand, his boundary computations based on his plat has a polygon that closes properly then it means that his layout is erroneous.
Simple as that. One or the other. You can't have both layout & plat as being correct at the same time if his ground positions are off from his plat.
OK, so WHICH END MOVES?
Record plat says a line is S89å¡51'32"E 532.52 feet.
You do your things, and find the line is 531.52 feet.
WHICH monument gets moved?
I'm a little hesitant, to call you a troll.... ie, some surveyor posting for kicks. Stir the pot. Because I have HEARD this same line of logic, from too many people before. I have once believed it myself, when I was 16.
I am not a troll, I just wanted to question your surveying methods in US where surveyors seem to lack the integrity to stand on their findings.
For a country that has advanced the surveying technology in the past 50 years to cm accuracy equipment, your surveyors seem to lack the
understanding that your work is to measure, record and monument land boundaries to the most accurate position allowed by technology.
You don't want to move monuments? Fine. But don't say that you can't moved monuments because it's correct since it was placed there 200 years ago. That logic is just downright funny and smells of incompetence? or laziness?or fear of stamping your seal on your findings.
OK, so WHICH END MOVES?
Record plat says a line is S89å¡51'32"E 532.52 feet.
You do your things, and find the line is 531.52 feet.
WHICH monument gets moved?
kindly read back. you widen your survey until you get at LEAST 3 (or more) MONUMENTS from adjoining lots that agree with their deed descriptions.
Francis,
Have you read many appellate decisions concerning land boundaries in any of the United States? One cannot practice competently here without being familiar with those basic principles. One also cannot understand, much less critique, our methods without having a passing knowledge of them as well.
FrancisH, post: 396662, member: 10211 wrote: your surveyors seem to lack the
understanding that your work is to measure, record and monument land boundaries to the most accurate position a allowed by technology.
This is the fundamental flaw in your thinking. This is NOT the primary job of a Professional Surveyor performing a retracement survey in the US. The primary job is to evaluate ALL of the evidence available to determine where the property line was ORIGINALLY placed ON THE GROUND. The accurate measurement of that monument is secondary to determining where it is on the ground. This has been explained to you multiple times in this thread but, as long as you continue to ignore it then you are never going to reach a consensus with the posters on this site.
FrancisH
You don't come here to learn, so I won't try to teach you, but I am considering retiring to your country and living the good life. The survey system you describe (if you truly do understand it) sounds so easy that most of us here could do it in our sleep!
