I'm sure I was by no means the first smart ass kid to come down the pike, but I bet some of my old records still stand today.
I "fell" into surveying like a lot of people probably did, by opportunity and not design. I was a son of a surveyor and HS dropout. Pops made sure I wasn't going to spend my time at the pool hall so I became a grunt on a crew. And although I was merely the "bucket man" (one notch below tail-chainman) I was actually far more talented than I myself knew.
I always had a keen interest in astronomy and the instruments that Pops had in his truck. Pops wouldn't let me look at the Moon or Venus without first learning how to set up the transit, level over a point, with the top motion zeroed and ready for a backsight. I was probably the first nine year old kid that was qualified to be an instrument man. By twelve I could pull a full-growed man off balance with the opposite end of the chain. And my level rod reading skills were beyond compare. Probably because when the face on the Philly rod got worn it was up to me to take black and red Testor's enamel model paint and refresh the notches. I knew which side of that mark was 0.05' and which side 0.06' before I hit puberty.
But Pops handed me my first job on a crew with the proverbial "swim or drown" mentality and I had to start at the bottom.
I wasn't out to show the world how smart I was. I'm not so sure I was even aware my abilities were light years ahead of some of the other fellows on the crew. But before long I had established myself as a desirable talent and a contributing member of a crew...except for my smart ass mouth. And although my attitude and remarks may have initially held me back, I had fun with it...and isn't that what life is really all about, enjoying it?
Now I followed directions explicitly that were related to my job. I saved my salvos of contemptuous remarks for when a superior screwed up and knew it. I remember one PC had enough of my chatter and told me to not say a thing to him unless it was survey related. You got it Charlie, 10-fricking-4. We were pulling out of the office the next morning and he didn't see the car coming from the opposite direction. I did...before AND after the impact. As we were brushing shattered glass out of our laps the PC (who had been behind the wheel) asked me if I had seen the car that hit us. I told him yes. He wanted to know why I didn't say anything....I told him it wasn't survey related. He hated my guts after that.
As volatile as I was my abilities allowed me to maintain my employment. I was good at what I did, you just might have to put up with my rhetoric. Some PCs did, some didn't. I remember once an older engineer I worked for called me in his office and wanted to know why the PC was constantly griping about me. I told him it was because I always gave the PC a bunch of sh*t. The engineer asked why. My reply was, "because he's stupid." (He really was.) My only saving grace that day was probably because the engineer agreed with my assessment.
Time passed and there came an opportunity to fill a party chief position from three or four possible employees. That old engineer called me in his office and asked me who I thought was the most qualified. I told him I was. He told me he actually agreed to a point, but was concerned about my smart ass attitude; to him it was a deal breaker. I asked him for the chance to "prove him wrong"...
I remember he smiled, raised his greyed ratty eyebrows and said, "You'd love to prove me wrong, wouldn't you?" I emphatically told him, "You bet."
He sighed as he rubbed his eyes with his fingers under his wire-rimmed bifocals and shook his head. I was the new party chief...and I didn't let the man down.
I have been to hundreds of hours of seminars concerning management of employee talent. One common school of thought is to elevate an employee to a level of incompetence and allow that employee's fear of failure be his driving force to succeed or excel. Don't believe a word of it. If you fill positions with incompetent people you wind up with sub-standard work.
If you want a competent employee pick the smart ass....just make sure he really does know what he's talking about. 😉
Laurence J. Peter?
Sergeant Schultz, post: 396780, member: 315 wrote: Laurence J. Peter?
That's who they say.
Nice Principle.
This is great. I feel the same about myself, although that car accident remark is top notch!
My boss was afraid to give the PC position to me. I'm sure that it was in fear of what the other employees would say. So I got a promotion to "assistant" party chief, which we lovingly referred to as the baby party chief position. The trouble was that my PC was always absent so I was essentially the PC anyhow.
It was amazing to me how some of these people kept their positions.
I hate boasting but I know that during this last down turn I was one of the few people, that I know, that was able to maintain employment as a PC or otherwise.
Some of us smart asses just bring a lot to the table. Good for us[emoji6]
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One of my high school teachers informed me in front of the entire class that he had apparently been educating the wrong end of my anatomy because I had sure turned out to be a smart ass.
Sixteen years later I returned the favor while serving on our school board when I recommended him for a newly opened spot as high school principal. It was so odd to hear him constantly address me as Mr. Cow instead of as "smart ass".
Is it possible to be the son of a surveyor and not a smart ass?
I would rather be a smart ass than a dumb one....
I am not the son of a surveyor, though I grew up around some world class smart assness.......
The truck anecdote bothers me.
I learned quickly from a supervisor on city job that if you have a brush up incident on the job , then let it go. Water under the bridge.
He reamed me and a coworker once for something that happened but a few hours later, he acted like it never happened but we did get the message.
You brush it off and move on. The sun rises on a new day and don't cry over spilt milk etc.
If I was the PC, I would have had you terminated for malicious and dangerous behavior.
I don't care how smart or experienced that you may be.
Sometimes the smartest person is the most dangerous employee if you can't work with them.
I can make a list of of various employees from a PC, an LSIT and an IT/CADD person to document the last statement.
Anyway my 2cts. Carry on...
I had one PC, not much older than me, that was sooo sure I was going to screw him around he led me (the rodman) around throughout a level loop pointing at each TBM and keeping the level book by reading hand signals from the instrument man. I didn't mind. In my mind it got lazy butt out of the truck.
We were running through an older neighborhood that had alleys and it was pretty easy to balance the shots and there was a cut 'x' on just about every other intersection curb. But there was one 'half' block that had no alley. Near there, turning back we actually walked past a TBM we had shot. He got mixed up, walked to the next intersection and looked down and saw an x. I dawdled at the real TBM until he hollered at me to 'get up here'....I knew it wasn't the one we had shot earlier, but I didn't say a thing.
When we closed I'm sure it wasn't right. He must've sat there for an hour trying to make his numbers add up and they wouldn't. He accused me of putting the rod on top of my foot when he wasn't looking or some other garbage. I finally told him where he had messed up. He was livid. Yelled at me for "letting him mess up the loop." I explained I was merely placing the rod where he told me to, nothing else. I had to ask him, "wasn't that what you walking along with me was all about...so you could make sure I didn't mess it up?"
Six months later that same fellow went to work for the local water department keeping track of the atlas sheets. A more fitting position in a lot of people's opinion.
lmbrls, post: 396789, member: 6823 wrote: Is it possible to be the son of a surveyor and not a smart ass?
Definitely, because if your dad made pincushion corners you're probably a dumb ass instead. Sorry, couldn't resist. 🙂
Robert Hill, post: 396800, member: 378 wrote: The truck anecdote bothers me...
Anyway my 2cts. Carry on...
Robert it happened pretty fast and it really wasn't that bad of an accident. One of those things where you see something but by the time your mouth gets the signal, it was over with. But firing a passenger for not "back seat driving" might be a little difficult to write up in my mind.
Plumb Bill, post: 396802, member: 226 wrote: Definitely, because if your dad made pincushion corners you're probably a dumb ass instead. Sorry, couldn't resist. 🙂
Pincushions were only found in my Mom's sewing kit. My Father and pincushion should not be used in the same sentence. I went several years before I even met a surveyor that admitted to setting a pin beside the found corner. Dumb asses appear to have greatly increased over the years.
Durned it, Mr Cash, we just have to get together sometime. You would be fine campfire material... while sitting in a comfey chair, and watching the embers glow, I think we could share stories!
paden cash, post: 396801, member: 20 wrote: I had one PC, not much older than me, that was sooo sure I was going to screw him around he led me (the rodman) around throughout a level loop pointing at each TBM and keeping the level book by reading hand signals from the instrument man. I didn't mind. In my mind it got lazy butt out of the truck.
We were running through an older neighborhood that had alleys and it was pretty easy to balance the shots and there was a cut 'x' on just about every other intersection curb. But there was one 'half' block that had no alley. Near there, turning back we actually walked past a TBM we had shot. He got mixed up, walked to the next intersection and looked down and saw an x. I dawdled at the real TBM until he hollered at me to 'get up here'....I knew it wasn't the one we had shot earlier, but I didn't say a thing.
When we closed I'm sure it wasn't right. He must've sat there for an hour trying to make his numbers add up and they wouldn't. He accused me of putting the rod on top of my foot when he wasn't looking or some other garbage. I finally told him where he had messed up. He was livid. Yelled at me for "letting him mess up the loop." I explained I was merely placing the rod where he told me to, nothing else. I had to ask him, "wasn't that what you walking along with me was all about...so you could make sure I didn't mess it up?"
Six months later that same fellow went to work for the local water department keeping track of the atlas sheets. A more fitting position in a lot of people's opinion.
You were a smart ass! Surveying was probably boring for you and to slow going for an active mine such as yours. They warned me about guys like you. "watch it, he will cut a foot on you when it matters" was the warning. Hope you were not that vindictive. I personally loved chaining for a good productive party chief but hated my job when chaining for a slow unproductive chief. Jp
Jp7191, post: 396831, member: 1617 wrote: You were a smart ass! Surveying was probably boring for you and to slow going for an active mine such as yours. They warned me about guys like you. "watch it, he will cut a foot on you when it matters" was the warning. Hope you were not that vindictive. I personally loved chaining for a good productive party chief but hated my job when chaining for a slow unproductive chief. Jp
I gave a lot of people a lot of crap when I was younger. That's ok, I've gotten every bit of it back with this little thing called Karma.
But my choice of 'play' with the PC was specifically custom fit to each and every "victim". Some got the direct approach, some got passive aggression.
My favorite torment for one PC was to put 6H lead in his lead holder. That's like trying to draw with a 16d nail. He cussed and changed the lead to HB from a stash of HB lead in the glove box. A few days later I emptied the HB package in the glove box and refilled it with 6H....
And your remark about cutting a foot reminded me of something that happened once that I was blamed for but really wasn't my fault. We were laying out a 100' grid for a grading area, and I was the tail chain. About an hour into the day, it became apparent our grid wasn't lining up with what we had done the day before. I got yelled at for not "holding a hundred", but I had been. At the request of the PC we were using a different chain than the day before. We were currently using a babbit cut chain (the grads on the smart end were opposite of an add chain). The party chief had been using the 1' mark instead of the zero.
That wasn't me, but it sure was funny when he realized it was him and not me...
Once a PC I never took crap from an owners smart ass son, who tried to tell me how "Daddy" did it. After the first time told the son and told the Daddy it's my way or the highway and never looked back, I could stand behind my work and never had any problem and never heard anymore shit from daddy's boy!
Ron Lang, post: 396871, member: 6445 wrote: Once a PC I never took crap from an owners smart ass son, who tried to tell me how "Daddy" did it. After the first time told the son and told the Daddy it's my way or the highway and never looked back, I could stand behind my work and never had any problem and never heard anymore **** from daddy's boy!
When you're doing good work and making a boat load of money, there's not a whole.lot to be said.
I was fortunate to first learn from my Uncle Mike Hannah (once called the best PC by the late great Art Osborn), and then I decided to be the best, not sure if I ever got close, but I tried! I love surveying!
paden cash, post: 396801, member: 20 wrote: I had one PC, not much older than me, that was sooo sure I was going to screw him around he led me (the rodman) around throughout a level loop pointing at each TBM and keeping the level book by reading hand signals from the instrument man. I didn't mind. In my mind it got lazy butt out of the truck.
We were running through an older neighborhood that had alleys and it was pretty easy to balance the shots and there was a cut 'x' on just about every other intersection curb. But there was one 'half' block that had no alley. Near there, turning back we actually walked past a TBM we had shot. He got mixed up, walked to the next intersection and looked down and saw an x. I dawdled at the real TBM until he hollered at me to 'get up here'....I knew it wasn't the one we had shot earlier, but I didn't say a thing.
When we closed I'm sure it wasn't right. He must've sat there for an hour trying to make his numbers add up and they wouldn't. He accused me of putting the rod on top of my foot when he wasn't looking or some other garbage. I finally told him where he had messed up. He was livid. Yelled at me for "letting him mess up the loop." I explained I was merely placing the rod where he told me to, nothing else. I had to ask him, "wasn't that what you walking along with me was all about...so you could make sure I didn't mess it up?"
Six months later that same fellow went to work for the local water department keeping track of the atlas sheets. A more fitting position in a lot of people's opinion.
A bit of a hijack, but this reminds me of a situation that happened right after I was given my first instrument man position. I had been switched to a new crew and was running one of my first level loops with them. Our rodman had also just started with the company, but he was a 30-year vet of surveying who claimed that he took the rodman position because it was all he could find. We ran our level loop through a subdivision full of sewer stakes with me on the level and the 30-year guy on the rod. Arrive at the tie-in and da****, busted 0.2'. We ran the loop again, came to the tie-in, and same thing, busted 0.2'. The party chief was none to happy with me, and I'm claiming innocence to whole time. Well, by coincidence, one of the young engineers from the office had gone out with us that day to get some field experience. This time the party chief asked the engineer to walk the rod, with me still on the level. Same routine, same turn points, but this time we get to the tie-in point and, bam, tied flat. The party chief is pretty suspicious and starts looking for differences in his notes. He finds the hub with the elevation difference and asks the engineer to shoot it again. Same elevation we shot. Then he says "shoot the ground next to it". He shot the ground and the difference was exactly the amount we busted. It was pretty clear at that point what happened. There was a big production made out of it, and even though I was too ignorant at the time to realize the 30-year guy was trying to get me out of the way so he could have my job, he ended up being the one who was fired.
I went several years and never thought much more about it, except there was always the little question in the back of my mind about what if the guy was innocent, and it was an accident. Then I was working with an old timer who had been surveying in our area for about 40 years. I told him the story of what happened. He looked at me kind of puzzled and said, "Was the guy's name xxxxx xxxxxxx?" I said "Yes, it was!" He said "That guy did the exact same thing to me fifteen years ago!" Well, that removed any doubt in my mind, and I was glad the guy got fired. The would-be saboteur left in such a hurry, he left behind his well-worn plumb bob, which resides in my truck to this day.