Interesting series of phone calls yesterday.
First call (and text with a photo) was from crew chief. "There is this marker out here that has a company name and indicates that there is underground FO nearby."
I do some quick research and find that that company has a website. Their website has general information on the areas of the state they serve. Hummm. None within 100 miles.
Call the company to see if maybe the website is out of date. Am told I need to speak with the project manager. Left voice mail. So far, 20 hours later, no return call.
Didn't give up. Called back to the company and receptionist wants to put me through to the same voice mail. I explain that I don't need lots of details, just whether or not they have lines in that particular area. Reluctantly she puts sends my call to someone else. That person tells me that they do have FO in that area and that I should have called in an underground utility located ticket. I explain that I did call in a ticket a month ago and that so far, there had been no response.
He can't find the ticket in his records and his company name does not appear on any of our tickets. (There were several for the entire project.)
Then he explains that the problem may be that their company has a partner that "covers that area". Turns out the partner does appear on some of the tickets. So I call the partners man in charge of locating in that area.
He explains that they got the ticket but that we had told them we were doing surveying work and he didn't bother to respond to most survey requests. He also explained that he had 14 days to respond and might be able to get something marked at the very end of that time.
I explained that we had called in a different ticket a month ago and that apparently he had not responded. Was told "Nobody cares about those survey tickets."
Then I explained that the current (2nd) ticket was not a survey ticket and that an excavating crew would be on site this morning.
Me: "The ticket clearly says we are doing geotechnical soil boring. Also, you will note that I called this in on Monday. You have 48 hours to respond to that request. That time is up at midnight on Wednesday."
Him: "Can't your crew come back in a couple of weeks?"
Me: "No, they have traveled to do this work on Thursday and Friday. They have a full schedule. We have done everything we were supposed to do. Now it is your turn to do what you are supposed to do."
Him: "You shouldn't call in tickets for survey. We don't respond to those."
Me: "Well I guess it's a good thing this wasn't that."
All this to illustrate why some surveyors fudge things just a little and explain that they have to dig for corners when doing a survey. Have tried to explain that if you make us lie about what we are doing so the system won't ignore our requests it hurts everyone.
Larry P
FWIW: "Locating" is specifically defined in CI/ASCE 38-02as: "The process of exposing and recording the precise vertical and horizontal location of a utility."
Anyone who uses the term for sending out a guy with eight hours of training to "drop the box" and mark the utilities by induction needs to be avoided like the plague.
Partially Relevant Previous Thread 🙂
That's why I learned years ago that when I submit a ticket I never include the word "surveying" anywhere on it, even in the company name, and always verify that there will be digging, blasting, and excavation of archaeological artifacts from the site and a 500 foot radius around it.
I have had this same problem A LOT. So I just started lying, saying I would be excavating. I hate having to do it that way, but I always get marking service now.
Every time I submit a ticket, though, the guy from the gas company that is supposed to do the locate calls trying to get out of it. What worries me is that it is not the same guy, and this is across a large portion of two states. You would think they would be the one utility that would be sincere.
LMAO!!
I've copied and pasted your suggestion into my corporate office manual.
Have a great week! B-)
glad i could help.
how's things in altamonte spgs? i haven't been through there in years, ever since the folks retired and moved BACK up to the farm in the midwest.
> I have had this same problem A LOT. So I just started lying, saying I would be excavating. I hate having to do it that way, but I always get marking service now.
>
> Every time I submit a ticket, though, the guy from the gas company that is supposed to do the locate calls trying to get out of it. What worries me is that it is not the same guy, and this is across a large portion of two states. You would think they would be the one utility that would be sincere.
That is the real problem. Why are they trying to get out of their work? It is not hard work by any means. Attach battery to line, use magic wand to get a buzz, set a couple flags or some spray paint.
I tried that once and the utility mark-up company called me out on it. They absolutely will not mark for surveyors in Florida. He said that "excavation" within a right of way requires an government permit, so fax over my permit and then they'll schedule the mark-up ...
Well to be fair, our work is not that hard either. Just set up fancy equipment, measure a couple things, and put some rebars in the ground.
i have a client who is a former prison guard. she observed so many of her fellow guards spend 7 hours trying to figure out how to get out of one hour of work, then go home.
i'll have to ask one of these guys how tough it is sometime.
a few years ago we called for a markout. when the guy showed up and started marking, the client talked to him. he asked what she would be digging and she spilled the beans that we were just surveying for now. he stopped mid mark and left.
The only locators I have ever worked with were hired by the client or by the surveyor.
I do not doubt that you have run into locators with a poor work ethic but would posit that the task itself of defining the location of items underground for the purpose of conveying that location to a map is not without its own skill set deserving some recognition.
> All this to illustrate why some surveyors fudge things just a little and explain that they have to dig for corners when doing a survey. Have tried to explain that if you make us lie about what we are doing so the system won't ignore our requests it hurts everyone.
Hmm... Well Mr. P, that explains why, as a newbie to surveying while at M&C working for John, I always got tagged to make the call to the locators. I was told to tell them, there will be blasting, boring and excavations going on. Oh, and by the way, there is a railroad nearby [in case they ask].
Since these were all for NCDOT bridge replacement projects, I suppose all that was true. When it might actually happen was a completely different story, of course. In any event, things were all marked up within a day, two max - unless I explicitly told them we wouldn't be back out to the site for a few days.
Whether me mentioning NCDOT projects or my pseudo-BS helped, I don't know. Regardless, we never waited on them.
We could never figure out why the presence of a RR made any difference but I was told to tell them there is one nearby regardless. The times I was asked, I would just tell them that I had been to the site and could hear a train but don't know exactly where it is. That part was true. However, we all know how sound can travel in the western NC mountains so I could have been hearing trains from many miles away.
E.
I'm sure this isn't a Humor category but, whenever the subject comes up I remember a conversation I had once with a young man who worked for the city in a small East Texas town, and on the subject of the location of the city utilities he recounted a few of his experiences, one of which involved AT&T..??, when the city contacted them about a huge trunk cable in a certain location, AT&T assured them there were no lines in that area. The city called them back some time later when they removed a sizable chunk of that trunk line.
On the subject of gas mains and service lines he said they were aware of the location of "some" of these lines that they had to deal with in the past. Apparently the city didn't know the location of most of these lines and when landowners would call asking about the existence, or location, of these lines:
"..we aren't really sure where these lines are. You either have gas, or you don't"
🙂
I :love: Texas
In October the Professional Land Surveyors of Ohio (PLSO) fall seminar included a session presented by Ohio Utilities Protection Service (OUPS) that clearly stated surveys that include searches for boundary corners and setting such corners should include a locate request. Getting to this point took several years for members of PLSO.
Several years ago the local chapter invited one of the same speakers to a meeting. The attitude then was similar to what most here have described. After several minutes of discussion I raised a 30 inch Bernsten drive in monument above my head and asked "If I'm driving this an inch below existing surface is a locate required?"
The presenter paused then asked "Why would you do that and how often?" Everyone present informed him that the minimum standards, with few exceptions, required a 5/8"x30" rebar or equal length pipe be set at all property corners. The monument represented a common upgrade and the minimum required length. Then we directed the discussion to excavation for property corners. The fact that surveyors often dig several feet to search for old pins or stones was also a surprise to the speaker. The speaker admitted we should be getting locates.
Following that meeting the relationship between OUPS and PLSO has improved. The discussion at the seminar was very positive. OUPS is a contact point and the locates are contracted out by most utilities. If Ohio surveyors have poor response and notify OUPS they will make an effort to educate the utility.
