We are working on a 53 acre boundary survey which has a newly constructed road (or about 3000' of it) as one of the main boundary lines. We bid on the staking a few years back (did not win the bid, but that is a different story), so we had a copy of the r/w plans (dated March 2008). Located numerous r/w monuments and everything fits real well, except in one area and about six monuments are "way off" the plan geometry. Either they were set incorrectly, located incorrectly or the plans had changed.....
The plans had changed and we were able to obtain the revised sheets (dated April 2009) from the firm that prepared the plans.
Upon completing the initial research we found the r/w deeds for the new road and they are dated 2007. Seems as if the plans that went to bid and the new monuments that were set are based on plans that were revised after the initial recording of the documents.
So we have recorded r/w deeds that do not match the latest plans and the original monuments in the ground match the latest plans but not the recorded information!
First thing in the morning, keep digging to see if I can find the recorded information to match the latest plans.....
I do love this job...
nice
can't wait to hear why the plans were revised.
They are the original monuments.
Why would it matter if they do not match the plans?
Follow the footsteps....... and all.
:-S
> They are the original monuments.
Sounds to me like they're "original monuments" for a plan that bears no relation to the ROW acquisition, as they reflect a design change that was made after the ROW take had already been completed. If that's the case, they're irrelevant to the deeded ROW and pertain only to the construction documents.
Following in the footsteps of the original surveyor is all well and good, but you have to follow the right surveyor for it to be meaningful.
Yep, following original footsteps is an important part of our profession...
But you can easily run into areas where the "surveyor of record" only went so far, and matched only a small collection (maybe even just two) of nearby monuments, then flew off of those. A larger survey may have indicated that one (or more) of these monuments were set in violation of the recorded documents. At some point, the conflict becomes clear.
So while we generally should hold recorded monuments, it's not always clear how to do that, when sloppy surveying has been recorded.
We've hit a situation like this recently, where several sets of sloppy surveyors set a whole bunch of points. The whole thing seems to be keyed off of someone who failed to locate an original section corner, and pro-rated a new one into a new location, some 50' off of the original location. That new section corner was then used by other surveyors, who set lot corners based on that location. However, other corners were set by the incorrect section corner. This is in a rural area, which had a very sparse population for some 20 years. But now it's filling in, and all the lot owners are trying to figure out their property lines. And the county is also trying to figure out where the right-of-way lines are for the roads, for a subdivision plotted ca. 1970. The whole thing has turned into a giant disaster.
Platted distances for lot corners differ from located distances by over 20', and as much as 40'. There are multiple sets of monuments, and none of them can be reconciled to the original plats. As a result, the county doesn't even know where their ROW is. And depending on which sets of monuments you hold, it throws various homes into adjacent lots. It's a real mess.
Oh, and to add to the mess, since this is in rural area, records are hard to find. Even though we're in a recording state, the local records were filed very haphazardly. And we've managed to locate a couple of misfiled records, mostly through luck, that have lent some perspective on what happened. But we have no idea how many other misfiled records may still exist, which we can't find. Without that data, there's no way to trail the records, and try to sort through record of found monuments, to figure out who did what from what. So we often can't even try to hold the "original survey", since we can't even figure out what it was.
Surveyors seldom set R/W markers, thats a contractor thing.
Bruce
Dan
I've been there and done that. One State Route here in Cobb County I found deeds (from 1937) calling for 40 feet from centerline (station to station) but found the right of way monuments set 50 feet from centerline. OOOOPPS!!
Andy
> Surveyors seldom set R/W markers, thats a contractor thing.
>
> Bruce
I think that was much more true in the 70's, 60's and earlier. Today a lot of States require surveyors to set right-of-way markers. (I would guess most, but I don't know). Are you saying that construction personnel set right-of-way markers in Texas? Here, R/W monuments are set by land surveyors and their license number goes on the cap.
In Florida setting R/W monuments on state roads fell under the "post construction" services. Due to the shrinking state road budget monumenting R/W has now all but stopped.
I can think of two cases where I have encountered State Highway plans showing right-of-way that differs from reality. That is why they are called plans. In one case the highway goes through a small city. The city condemned property for highway use along the route. Their condemnation does not agree with the stated uniform right-of-way width on the plans. In the other case through a rural area the plans show the right-of-way as a total of 60 feet, being 30 feet each side of the section lines being followed for highway centerline. The original county road that was being converted to a State highway was only 25 feet on either side of the section line. There are no records for any property along the route ever having granted the additional five feet and there is no court record to back up condemnation proceedings. All evidence and fences confirm the 50 foot total width.
In this case the r/w monuments fit the 2008/2009 plans like a glove. It is just that the r/w deeds on record at the courthouse make reference to the 2007 plans.
So it would appear that plans were completed in 2007 and r/w was acquired based on those plans and the r/w documents for the new road were recorded. Then in 2008 the plans were redone with yet another slight revision in 2009 and those are the plans by which the road was staked, built and monuments were set.
Looks like (unless I can find additional documentation) that property was conveyed by deed in 2007 to the D.O.T. yet the road was built and monuments were set in a different location based on a set of plans dated 2008-2009.
Still investigating the official county records as well as with my contacts at the D.O.T.
> Surveyors seldom set R/W markers, thats a contractor thing.
>
> Bruce
While this was true in the past in Idaho, this is no longer the case and this is a Great thing! Why in the world we had contractors setting monuments for decades is beyond me. After all, ROW marker is a boundary monument and MUST be set by the professional surveyor in charge of determining its location.
Back to the topic at hand. I have personally experienced many instances similar to what you are describing. Sounds like they monumented 'X' parcel buy purchased 'Y' parcel. They own what they purchased and if they monumented a parcel based on an entirely different description or plan the monuments should be removed by whoever set them.
