I have a question where i have pretty much formulated my opinion but wanted to get other points of view. We do quite a bit OF ALTA surveys and in our county there is an AIMS service which has highly accurate and the planimetrics are spot on. What is your opinion of using this for ALTA surveys and shooting all the critical items, boundary, buildings, utilities and items around the boundary that could be potential encroachment issues. It feels unethical but i know some people are doing this. What is your opinion?
Why not talk to your insurance agent? Ask what increase in your professional liability insurance might be.
Just think, maybe aerial mapping companies could make a killing doing ALTA surveys! Nobody would have to leave the office any more just to do an ole ALTA job right from the Softcopy Workstation.
Who needs Land Surveyors any more?
Does your boss know you're thinking of doing that? I'm assuming you must not have your license yet.
>It feels unethical but I know some people are doing this. What is your opinion?
My opinion is that if it's an option in the standards that they have opted for, and you've informed the client what you're doing, how can it be unethical?
TABLE A
OPTIONAL SURVEY RESPONSIBILITIES AND SPECIFICATIONS
NOTE: The items of Table A must be negotiated between the surveyor and client. It may be necessary for the surveyor to qualify or expand upon the description of these items (e.g., in reference to Item 6(b), there may be a need for an interpretation of a restriction). The surveyor cannot make a certification on the basis of an interpretation or opinion of another party. Notwithstanding Table A Items 5 and 11(b), if an engineering design survey is desired as part of an ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey, such services should be negotiated under Table A, item 22.
15. Rectified orthophotography, photogrammetric mapping, airborne/mobile laser scanning and other similar products, tools or technologies as the basis for the showing the location of certain features (excluding boundaries) where ground measurements are not otherwise necessary to locate those features to an appropriate and acceptable accuracy relative to a nearby boundary. The surveyor shall (a) discuss the ramifications of such methodologies (e.g. the potential precision and completeness of the data gathered thereby) with the insurer, lender and client prior to the performance of the survey and, (b) place a note on the face of the survey explaining the source, date, precision and other relevant qualifications of any such data.
Thanks for your reply UF, but as I stated I already formulated my opinion. I was asking because I believe that when I get undercut by half on an ALTA survey I believe people are using this route. I've estimated surveys in this county and thought they were very competitive only to have someone do them for much less. I do have my license in multiple states and really just wanted an honest opinion to get a feel for how people are doing surveys for so little.
> I have a question where i have pretty much formulated my opinion but wanted to get other points of view. We do quite a bit OF ALTA surveys and in our county there is an AIMS service which has highly accurate and the planimetrics are spot on. What is your opinion of using this for ALTA surveys and shooting all the critical items, boundary, buildings, utilities and items around the boundary that could be potential encroachment issues. It feels unethical but i know some people are doing this. What is your opinion?
Isn't boundary surveying a big part of this; determining potential encroachments? Same deal as using a reflectorless total station. Sometime physically going in is not an option. Check it first discreetly, then if indeed there is an encroachment issue, move on to phase 2: Notifying parties that there could be issue at the property line the requires survey and cooperation of each party. If there was no encroachment, no need to move to phase 2 and to bring disruption to the neighborhood by a walk in.
> Why not talk to your insurance agent? Ask what increase in your professional liability insurance might be.
>
> Just think, maybe aerial mapping companies could make a killing doing ALTA surveys! Nobody would have to leave the office any more just to do an ole ALTA job right from the Softcopy Workstation.
>
> Who needs Land Surveyors any more?
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think the use of aerial mapping on an ALTA is taboo. I have used the method on numerous ALTA/ASCM Land Title Surveys in my 25 years of surveying. There is even a Table A item for the method. I don't think the original poster was talking about resolving the boundary from the photography.
The first step is to provide photo control for the project. The aerial mapping is utilize for depicting on site plannimetric features and contours if required. Next we do the boundary recovery survey; locate features within 5 feet of the property line; tie the buildings on site; and located features obscured in the aerial photography. The boundary resolution, exception review and final mapping is done in my office. Large shopping malls are great place to utilize the technique. I have also used it successfully on large ranches and US Point of Entries.
John Putnam, PLS
OR, WA, CA, ID
Just to clarify some things. The aerial mapping is a not free and is for sale by the county. It is updated yearly and to national mapping standards. Our company has helped the county proof their yearly updates of this product a couple of times and they expect a rigorous check of the overall product before making it available to the public. I understand that you can use aerial mapping for ALTA's. It is table A item 5. The question i have is i believe there are people that are using this method of getting mapping for surveys and then locating all of the critical items such as the boundary, buildings, items within 5 feet of the property and any other item to make the ALTA up to par with the current standards. My question is if this is ethical to use a county wide mapping program (AIMS) supplemented by field work to reduce the overall cost of an ALTA survey. If you make your client aware of what method you are using is this ethical. Obviously you would want to check the mapping product just like you would from a mapping company you hire. Below is a disclaimer from the mapping site that kinda of makes me think you can't do this. Again i have no intention of using this method but feel like there are people who do and want to understand if this is acceptable. Thank you for all the constructive insight so far and i enjoy all of the discussion. I am encouraging all of my crew members to get involved with this site to improve their knowledge of our profession. Below are prices and disclaimer info.
Terms of Use - Johnson County AIMS Internet Site
This website is provided "as is" by the Government of Johnson County, Kansas Automated Information Mapping System (AIMS) Department. Data contained within this website are compiled from recorded deeds, plats, tax records, and other public records. Spatial data should be used for planning purposes only. No warranty expressed or implied is made regarding accuracy, adequacy, completeness, legality, reliability or usefulness of any information. Users are hereby notified that the aforementioned primary public information sources should be consulted for verification of the information.
By using the information, services and products available through this website, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions contained herein.
This application contains links to other Johnson County sites that contain additional Terms of Use. Your use of any Johnson County site shall also subject you to the Terms of Use of each of those sites. To the extent that the Terms of Use on any Johnson County site conflicts with any terms and condition contained herein, the Terms of Use of such site shall control.
Online Data Disclaimer and Terms of Use
All applications are subject to the Johnson County AIMS Internet Site Terms of Use and the Johnson County Website Policies . By using this website, you are agreeing to the terms, conditions, and policies set forth in the Johnson County AIMS Internet Site Terms of Use and the Johnson County Website Policies.
For questions regarding this website, please contact Johnson County AIMS at [email protected] or (913) 715-1600.
Kansas Open Records Act
"No person shall knowingly sell, give or receive, for the purpose of selling or offering for sale, any property or service to persons listed therein, any list of names and addresses contained in, or derived from public records..." K.S.A. 45-230. Violation of this law may subject the violator to a civil penalty of $500.00 for each violation. Violators will be reported for prosecution. By accessing this site, the user makes the following certification pursuant to K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): "the requester does not intend to, and will not: (A) Use any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or information for the purpose of selling or offering for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise make available to any person any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or information for the purpose of allowing that person to sell or offer for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address listed."
AIMS Data
No person shall sell, give, reproduce, or receive for the purpose of selling or offering for sale, any portion of the data provided herein. Johnson County makes every effort to produce and publish the most current and accurate information possible. Johnson County assumes no liability whatsoever associated with the use or misuse of such data, disclaims any representation or warranty as to the accuracy and currency of the data, and will not be liable for any damage or loss resulting from the use of the data.
Data Prices
Data pricing is dependent upon the type of data partner you are. There are three types of data partners: Government, Utility and Business. If you are not a data partner, then follow the Data on Demand pricing. If you are interested in becoming a data partner, please visit our Data Partner page to learn more.
Government Utility Business Data On Demand
Vector Data
Dataset Price Unit
Census $5.00 sq. mile
Centerline $10.00 sq. mile
Planimetrics/Topography $0.24 parcel
Plat Boundaries $5.00 sq. mile
Property $0.48 parcel
Subdivisions $5.00 sq. mile
Traffic Counts $5.00 sq. mile
Utilities
Prop./Plani./Topo. Bundle $0.60 parcel
View county-wide pricing >>
Digital data is available for purchase from our Digital Data Request online application.
Imagery
Imagery Type Price Unit
Current Photography $30.00 qtr. sq. mile
Historic Photography $2.50 qtr. sq. mile
Misc. Products
Dataset Price Unit
Online Plat Subscription $180.00 seat
Scanned Plats $5.00 plat
Just to clarify, I'm talking about having the project custom flown and not relying on stock mapping. I do a lot of work with aerial mapping companies to provide control for government aerial mapping projects. Most of these project are not meant to meet the standards required by and ATLA/ASCM Land Title Survey.
John