Florida moves to de-regulate Surveyors and Mappers

We must have both just checked our email ...

IMO, this is the result of the move we made a couple of years ago when we moved surveying from the Department of Professional Regulations to the Agriculture Commission. We separated ourselves from the “real professionals”, and lumped ourselves in with manicurists and travel agents. I crowed about it then. Now, they want to deregulate all the fringe "trades" the Agriculture Commissions regulates, and low and behold, those lowly guys you see holding sticks in the middle of the road are on that list, too....

FSMS LEGISLATIVE ALERT
YOUR PROFESSION IS UNDER ATTACK!
YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION IS REQUIRED!
Below is the Legislative Report from the first week of the Session. Of greatest importance and concern is the portion highlighted in red, regarding a proposed House Subcommittee bill to deregulate various professions including Professional Surveying and Mapping. A notice of the Committee Meeting was posted late Friday and is scheduled tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. (Tuesday March 15th).
It is imperative that each member take a few minutes and email or call each of the Committee Members listed to object to the deregulation of Surveying and Mapping and explain to them the devastating harm to the health, safety and welfare of the public if our profession is deregulated. The public will be at the mercy of “Desk Jockeys and Mouse Clickers”.
Also, we need members to come to Tallahassee tomorrow morning to attend the meeting and be prepared to speak against this action. Don’t stop by just contacting the Committee Members, contact your local House Representatives as well.
Our future depends on the action taken by each of us. Send the emails and make the phone calls. A united effort will defeat this.
If you will be in attendance in the morning, please call the Administrative Office at 800.237.4384.

Design Professional Liability
SB 288 by Sen. Negron (R- Palm City)
The Senate Regulated Industries Committee took up SB 288 and defeated this bill by a vote of 4 Yea’s and 8 No’s. Voting in support of this legislation included Sen. Jones, Sen. Thrasher, Sen. Wise and Sen. Siplin. Voting against the bill were Sen. Altman, Sen. Braynon, Sen. Dean, Sen. Diaz de la Portilla, Sen. Hill, Sen. Norman, Sen. Rich, and Sen. Sachs. We are currently evaluating our options on how to pass the bill this legislative session.
HB 605 by Rep. Stube (R-Sarasota)
HB 605 has not yet been placed on the agenda of the House Civil Justice Committee.
CCNA Under Attack
SB 276 by Sen. Bennett (R-Bradenton)
HB 135 by Rep. Costello (R-Deland)
There has been no movement of either of these bills during week 1 of the legislative session.

Proposed House Committee Bill Seeks to Deregulate Surveyors
PCB BCAS 11-01
The House Business and Consumer Affairs Subcommittee has released their proposed committee bill (PCB BCAS – 11-01) on deregulation of professions and businesses. The bill deregulates multiple professions and businesses including surveying and mapping. The bill is scheduled to be heard by the committee on Tuesday, March 15 at 8:00 am in Reed Hall. We are working to remove surveyors and mappers from this legislation. I have attached the proposed committee bill to this email for your review.
I have listed the members of this committee below. Please take a moment to send an email to the committee members asking them to remove surveyors and mappers from the deregulation bill.
Rep. Joe Abruzzo (D-Wellington) – joseph.abruzzo@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.4791
Rep. Larry Ahern (R-St Petersburg) – larry.ahern@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.6197
Rep. Frank Artiles (R-Miami) – frank.artiles@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.9550
Rep. Esteban Bovo (R – Hialeah) - esteban.bovo@myfloridahouse.gov 850.487.2197
Rep. Steve Crisafulli (R-Merritt Island) – steve.crisafulli@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.4669
Rep. Eric Eisnaugle (R-Orlando) – eric.eisnaugle@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.9770
Rep. Tom Goodson (R-Titusville) – tom.goodson@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.3006
Rep. Mia Jones (D-Jacksonville) - mia.jones@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.6893
Rep. Jeanette Nunez (R- Miami) - jeanette.nunez@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.7897
Rep. Jimmy Patronis (R-Panama City) - jimmy.patronis@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.9696
Rep. Ken Roberson (R-Sarasota) - ken.roberson@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.0060
Rep. Darrell Rouson (D-St. Petersburg) - darryl.rouson@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.0925
Rep. Irv Slosberg (D-Boca Raton) - irving.slosberg@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.1302
Rep. Cynthia Stafford (D-Miami) - cynthia.stafford@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.0625
Rep. Dana Young (R-Tampa) - dana.young@myfloridahouse.gov 850.488.2770

I disagreed with that move as well, to no avail. Much like UF moving the department of surveying out of the Engineering college made no sense either..

I do see some DBPR 'professions' in the actual document, though.

I copied all the email addresses in case anyone else wants to send a mass email..

joseph.abruzzo@myfloridahouse.gov,
larry.ahern@myfloridahouse.gov,
frank.artiles@myfloridahouse.gov,
esteban.bovo@myfloridahouse.gov,
steve.crisafulli@myfloridahouse.gov,
eric.eisnaugle@myfloridahouse.gov,
tom.goodson@myfloridahouse.gov,
mia.jones@myfloridahouse.gov,
jeanette.nunez@myfloridahouse.gov,
jimmy.patronis@myfloridahouse.gov,
ken.roberson@myfloridahouse.gov,
darryl.rouson@myfloridahouse.gov,
irving.slosberg@myfloridahouse.gov,
cynthia.stafford@myfloridahouse.gov,
dana.young@myfloridahouse.gov

Honestly, from the way people talk about how things are enforced in Florida, will anyone be able to tell a difference if the board just went away?

you're missing the point, Tommy. This is not just lowering the bar... it's throwing the bar away. the way I read the document, anyone can just say they are a surveyor under these changes.

"Professional surveyor and mapper" or "surveyor and mapper" means a person qualified by education and experience authorized to practice surveying and mapping under the provisions of chapter 472.

italics are added language. Red is removed language.

> you're missing the point, Tommy. This is not just lowering the bar... it's throwing the bar away. the way I read the document, anyone can just say they are a surveyor under these changes.
>
> "Professional surveyor and mapper" or "surveyor and mapper" means a person qualified by education and experience authorized to practice surveying and mapping under the provisions of chapter 472.
>
> italics are added language. Red is removed language.

That is seriously messed up, if one state goes this route then you can believe it will not be the only one.

It makes me wonder which case is worse: an unregulated profession, or a profession regulated by a board consisting mostly of engineers that don't have the first clue what they are doing when it comes to the surveying profession.

Lately, with my recent experiences, I'm starting to believe the former would be better than the latter.

Brian

And you have good reason to believe as you do!!

Keith

As I likewise read it, that is correct.

They are planning to deregulate land surveying completely. In Florida, anyone and everyone will be able to call themselves a surveyor and offer surveying services. If this passes, the surveying profession in Florida is completely dead.

And I agree, Florida will quite likely not be the only state trying to do this. Complete deregulation has been the war cry of the conservatives. Race to the bottom, let's destroy our country as fast as we can.

Apparently this is a wave of the future. But for now this is only a bill. Would anyone care to comment on the future of the future with regards to ramifications if this is passed. The title industry must have a particular stronghold.

The banking industry has always been on the cusp of failure (imho). Could the bill, along with Texas, be the start of a move? A move to withstand the need for what we do as professionals?

Let me guess...times are tight and all public officials have been tasked, behind closed doors, to cut.

I'm preaching to the choir. So, what's next for the profession?

Brian

Sooner or later someone is going to need to know where the boundary REALLY is. (not just where the plumber's helper or the wetland GIS guy says it it).

Perhaps then they will need to call the Royal Society of Chartered Surveyors of Florida to get a professional boundary surveyor. (The public has not always been assured they were getting a competent boundary surveyor just by the fact that they had a state license.)

> I'm preaching to the choir. So, what's next for the profession?

Hopefully private, nonprofit organizations authorized by the legislatures to license and regulate the profession. Seems to work in Great Britain, Canada, etc.

Excerpt from proposed bill;

“repealing chapter 472, F.S., relating to the licensure of professional surveyors and mappers, the Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers, and the practice of land surveying and mapping; amending ( my edit: various statutes appurtenant to Surveyors, and Mappers were omitted) conforming provisions; repealing s. 177.508, F.S., relating to the Florida Public Land Survey Restoration and Perpetuation Act not affecting the actions or practice of land surveyors and mappers regulated under chapter 472, to conform;”

Hell, those idiots threw us under the bus when we were moved from the DBPR to the Agriculture Commission. If this thing passes, and ANYTHING can happen in Tallahassee, thence we are “elevated” to the status of the mow and blow lawn people.

Thanks for the heads up and list Andy, I’m going to e-mail every damn one on it. I suppose this is all on the FSMS website, of which I am not a member anymore simply because I sent them 1K during the triple hurricane extravaganza we experienced for relief to Southwest Florida surveyors and never received any acknowledgment whatsoever for the gift.

Have a great week, if that’s possible with this ridiculous bill on the agenda.:-P

Just an FYI for Brian, our “board” consists of five surveyors and two non surveyors.

FSMS sent out a pretty good letter, so I thought I'd copy it here. I sent it to everyone on the committee.

The Business and Consumer Affairs Subcommittee has a proposed committee bill addressing the De?Regulation of
Professions and Occupations.

I urge you to drop Surveying and Mapping from this bill.

1. The move to de?regulate certain businesses and trades under the Florida Department of Business and
Professional Regulation (FDBPR) is necessary and commendable. However, this proposed bill also
includes several PROFESSIONS, and it would jeopardize the public to de?regulate PROFESSIONS. In
particular, the critical practice of Professional Surveying and Mapping was inadvertently included, and
should be quickly removed.

The regulatory Board for Surveyors and Mappers is no longer under FDBPR,
and should NOT be included in this bill.

2. Unlike most of the businesses/trades listed, Surveying and Mapping is a PROFESSION, and should be
regulated as all other members of the design community (traditionally labeled as A/E Design
Professionals). Nationally and internationally, Engineers and Surveyors are regulated by State agencies.
There is NO state in the USA that has de?regulated Surveying and Mapping. From both an insurance?risk
and educational?gateway analysis, Surveying and Mapping should be a regulated Profession. Unlike all of
the other businesses/trades listed in this proposal, Surveying and Mapping requires an accredited
Bachelor’s Degree, and significant on?the?job apprenticeship and training to be considered for licensure.

3. Protection of the Public: The single greatest source of personal wealth in this country is currently (and
historically) ownership of land and property. The very fabric of our economy is the orderly cadastre and
title system that was established and is perpetuated by the Profession of Surveying and Mapping. One
need only to look at the land?scams of the 1920’s and 1960’s here in Florida to remind ourselves of why
the Land Title Industry and Professional Surveyors and Mappers need to be regulated. The impact to our
economy in the recent collapse of the residential housing market underscores how important the process
of surveying and subdividing land is to our State. If FS472 was repealed, who would establish title under
FS177 for subdivisions, and under FS718 for condominium ownership?

4. Critical to Florida’s Infrastructure: Professional Surveyors and Mappers are a critical part of Florida’s
Infrastructure, and join with Architects and Engineers in the development of the very framework of our
communities: Roads, Bridges, Water, Sewer, Drainage, and all Public Facilities. Do we really want a
deregulated industry designing our infrastructure?

I am a Florida?licensed Professional Surveyor and Mapper, and have been licensed and regulated by the State of
Florida for 10 years.

I urge you to drop Surveying and Mapping from this bill.

My contact information is listed below.

Spoken like a true company man. I would expect someone that works for the government to advocate more government power.

I don't know that deregulating surveyors is the way to go, but I know that all these license hoops we're required to jump through has done very little to help the surveyor that tries to act professional.

For example, we've still got unlicensed guys doing surveys. They either do them and don't stamp the plat, OR they give another surveyor $50 per plat.

You've still also got people with a surveyor's license that have no idea what the heck their doing. Passing a test is little indication of professional competance.

> Spoken like a true company man. I would expect someone that works for the government to advocate more government power.

That is NOT what he said. Reread his post. I don't see anything in his post where he is advocating more government power.

It makes me wonder which case is worse: an unregulated profession, or a profession regulated by a board consisting mostly of engineers that don't have the first clue what they are doing when it comes to the surveying profession.

Lately, with my recent experiences, I'm starting to believe the former would be better than the latter.

2. Unlike most of the businesses/trades listed, Surveying and Mapping is a PROFESSION, and should be
regulated as all other members of the design community (traditionally labeled as A/E Design
Professionals). Nationally and internationally, Engineers and Surveyors are regulated by State agencies.
There is NO state in the USA that has de?regulated Surveying and Mapping. From both an insurance?risk
and educational?gateway analysis, Surveying and Mapping should be a regulated Profession. Unlike all of
the other businesses/trades listed in this proposal, Surveying and Mapping requires an accredited
Bachelor’s Degree, and significant on?the?job apprenticeship and training to be considered for licensure.

I think I'd rather be bunched up with Engineers than Beauticians and Hairdressers. But that's just me.

Ralph

Ok, you got me.

However, he is defending it.