Florida moves to de-regulate Surveyors and Mappers

> It's where Florida is headed.
>
> Our new governor just took Florida public education back 10 paces and we were already behind.
>
> But first he mishandled 2.4 billion (with a "B") and let it slip off to California.
>
> Everyone I know, right, left and in between, wonder who elected this nut job.
>
>
> It's going to be a free for all shortly.

Looks like the new governor's 7-7-7 plan is off to a good start. 😛

Rick,

Hopefully there will be enough public outcries to defeat the bill. I for one certainly question the 2.4 B giveaway. Scott is certainly a hard core businessman but he is ruffling too many feathers too soon. JMHO

Have a great week!

Bill

for every one- there are millions of others

Where we differ Tommy is that you are still looking for perfection in the system. I am not. Yes there are drawbacks to regulation. That is not in dispute. What you seem to be disputing is whether or not we,collectively as a society, are better off with regulation. The evidence is clear we are far better off with regulation than not. All one has to do is look at any place around the world to find plenty of evidence of POOR QUALITY OF LIFE DUE TO LACK OF REGULATION.

I am not arguing that regulation does not cost money. Of course regulation raises the price, but this is not the sole criteria that should be used to make the determination of what is regulated and by how much.

I have said before that we used to think it was cheaper to dump raw sewage into the drinking water supply and let those down stream worry about. We have since learn that this type of behavior makes no sense. Rolling back regulation, just because it cost to much from some peoples' perspective is just not a logical or rational approach. Far too many people will be injured and we will wind up just re- impelementing regulations.

I do agree with you that we ought to take a look at what we are doing and repeal regulation that is no longer useful or can be re-regulated in a more reasonable fashion, but cost has little to do with the figuring.

Here here EP

A classic example of conservatives championing regulation is abortion. But you are absolutely correct to say that plenty of conservatives do support COMMON SENSE REGULATION.

From my viewpoint, it is not proper to conflate, libertarian views, free marketeer capitalist with the views of conservatives per se. While they maybe kindered in some ways they are very different.

Further, this country was not founded on the notion of every man for himself. We would not have been able to defeat the British were this the case. Our nation was born out of people with different views being able to throw their lot into together for a greater good where all would benefit.

Just stop it, already, Tommy. NOBODY I KNOW, MYSELF INCLUDED, IS AN ADVOCATE FOR BIG GOVERNMENT OR NANNY STATES JUST FOR THE PURE SAKE OF BIG GOVERNMENT OR NANNY STATES. That is a huge false premise that folks like you have been operating on for far too long. I think it's safe to say that 99% of Americans agree we need *some* government and *some* regulation, the only question we disagree on is how much is enough. My vision of America just happens to be a slight bit more civilized than yours, which tends more toward the Wild West.

It's not their job to elevate the profession. It's the job of your professional societies to elevate the profession.

It's the BOR's job to enforce that there is at least a minimal level of competence. That, along with revoking licenses of folks who are reported as being grossly incompetent are their only mandates. For the states I work in, they don't have the resources or ability to just go around randomly policing practitioners, either. They rely on people turning bad actors in. When people complain about BOR's not doing their job going after the incompetent surveyors, it's 99% of the time because nobody is turning the bad actors in, or isn't providing enough information for them to work with.

Minimal competence is typically defined by education, experience and being able to pass an exam. That's all there is to it, no more, no less. All the rest of the nonsense that floats around about BORs is just that, nonsense.

"My vision of America just happens to be a slight bit more civilized than yours".

That Mr. Smith is your opinion, and not shared by many.

What I see is nothing more than the same partisan, ideological nonsense.

Most BORs are budget-neutral, if not making money for their respective states via registration and other fees, and monies collected via adjudications. It's not about budget.

Similarly, most BORs do not "over-regulate". Show me the sector of aspiring small businessmen who are at a loss for economic opportunity due to the licensed surveyor community being too exclusive. Frankly, to suggest this displays complete ignorance and obliviousness, given our many licensed brethren here who are currently struggling to find enough work to keep afloat.

Frankly, the only thing vapid here is this profoundly shortsighted approach that conservative lawmakers take. They automatically assume that government is excessive and overregulating, without even bothering to consider reality. They aren't interested in reality, they are only interested in advancing an agenda of deregulation over everything.

And, as for listening to their constituents, as we have seen from the several constituents who contacted their representatives, and accounts from the state society, where the responses indicate they are getting absolutely no traction. Show me a specific instance where any meaningful segment of the Florida populace sought deregulation of the surveying profession. Frankly, they have demonstrated that they really don't care about the will of the people.

Like I said, it's the race to the bottom. Even third-world nations see the importance of regulating the surveying profession in order to contain liabilities. Yet, we are rapidly falling behind even these.

Walker is a prime example

Many people are naive and accept at face value what politicians say from both sides of the aisle. They fail to appreciate the blood sport in politics. These suckers are playing for keeps and if you don't think they are you are just kidding yourself.

I agree entirely with that

it is a struggle to find the right balance.

Gentleman and Lady Surveyors:

This might be seen as in bad taste, but it very well needs to be posted. For the sake of a bankrupt nation, I will press the submit button. Non-American Surveyors can learn a little of American Politics.

I was educated at the University of Indianapolis. History and Political Science. Studied Mathematics and Science at St. Anselm's College in Manchester, New Hampshire.

I am sorry I wrote this in many ways, but it gets out some frustration, if I offend, so be it. I have been offended endlessly over the years as a Democrat in the Surveying Business.

Don't read this if you don't see the bigger picture here. Surveyor's are on the hot seat. Do not be selfish and solely decide this issue viewing your own self interest. There is the interest of a struggling nation, involved in multiple and costly wars, only one of which should have concerned us. A nation going bankrupt.

I am sorry to say the DEREGULATION OF SURVEYING AND MAPPING is a very partisan issue. The stakes are very high as we go into the 2012 election. Wisconsin and the removal of Teachers (Fellow Professionals) from having the right to have collective bargaining is another critical sign of the times. I thought that was settled in the early 20th century, at a time when corporate thugs where gunning down workers. The Franklin Roosevelt government sent in Federal Troops into Michigan, to defend the worker. It resulted in the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, legislation to defend worker's rights.

I see the word Liberal stated in some comments. Come on, the Demarcates rejected this bill. It is not Liberals, its the Democrats, say it. The email from the FSMS, gave the name of Republicans that 'voiced' opposition, but mentions no Democrat that 'voted' for the Surveyor, and no name of Republicans that supported this measure. Some mention, I believe, of the Speaker of the House, that people, is the Republican Leadership. Surveyor's have long been leaning strongly Republican, the individual Surveyor should re-evaluate where he places his vote. I am sure the FSMS is not going to, or the FSMS leadership, they will do quite well regardless of the results of this measure. I can not say the same for the surveyor with a small survey firm.

The Democrat's were on the side of the Teachers in Wisconsin, as they are on the side of the Surveyors in Florida. That is not a coincident. Both groups are part of a shrinking Middle Class. A Middle Class moving into the category of the have nots. A Middle Class Democrats strongly support.

Make a decision on where you want this county to go. Realize what you r voting for when u vote.

I am a Florida Democrat, un-Licensed Surveyor (because I could not afford to re-new my license on Feb 28, 2011). Times are dismal here in Southeast Florida, especially for the Surveyor, and especially myself.

Deregulation has brought us nothing but a greater and greater separation of the haves and have not's in America. Owners made 10 times the earnings of the worker in the early part of the 1900's. Today they are making hundreds of times the earnings of the worker. There is a big world out their now meeting face to face with the Surveyor. We represent the interest of local land owners. They themselves seeming to become members of the have nots.

I am voting Democratic. They vote for me in the legislature. As they did on this bill.

Surveyors in general are classical middle class in our society. This Republican Governor has been engaged with Medicare fraud, money from GOVERNMENT programs. He had no problem taking billions of dollars in that case from the Government, and hiding behind a corporate seal, taking the Fifth Amendment 75 times. But, when it came to Florida to build a hi-speed rail, it was not the governments role. Why? He does not want surveyors to have jobs building a new hi-speed rail lines. That is not the issue. But that was money that should of come into our profession here in Florida. BUT NO. Why?

Governor Scott was taken money from the Health Care System. Government Money. Your Money, My money. Scott, a Republican, had no problem taken that money from the Government. It has always amazed me how so many people can make money off the government, while they vote to limit the governments role.

Ladies and Gentleman, the cards are on the table, as Sara Palin said, it is time to re-load. I am not a bashful Democrat, we can re-load too.

Where is the rhetoric of this country going. The life threatening of Senators for there vote on Health Care. Federal Representative shot in Arizona. I am knowledgeable of Irish History, Guns in politics are not pretty. All the above offenses committed against Democrats.

SURVEYORS welcome to the larger debate. Like it or not.

Surveyors have made their own bed. Now its time to decide, Republican deregulation and Union Busting, the list goes on, or Democratic sense, sense of a balance between the people (The sovereign founders of our nation), the corporation, and the government. The Corporations has now been granted free speech by a republican controlled Supreme Court. Free Speech, given to each sovereign person by God, now given to corporations by a court. Where is the conservative Republicans "strict constitutionalism" now. Did God Grant corporations free speech? Per our founding fathers of the age of Enlightenment, He gave me Free Speech. Which I will defend for any person, not a corporation.

Republicans have had there way for over 30 years now, remember Ronald Regan "Government isn't the solution, government is the problem", and look where we are. The multi-national corporations doing fine, as they can use the government for their ends, such as an un-necessary War in the Middle-East, costing Trillions of dollars, Banks receiving a Trillion Dollar bailout, yet Main street on bread lines, a nation going bankrupt, individuals now being restricted form collective bargaining by a Government, that is OK. As we talk of the deficit, lets be honest about who brought this situation about. A surplus federal budget at the end of the Clinton Era, 2000, is the reality. What was given to the Democratic leadership in 2008. A bankrupt country. And what did Clinton himself receive after the Reagan Era, which brought on huge deficits.

Welcome to the debate Surveyors. Don't hide with the word Liberal, it is Democrat. The Democratic party is mainstream. The Republican Party is an extremist party. As this Republican Governor shoves the extremism down the throat of the Surveyor and many other small interest groups, they, the corporate interests, laugh at the way Americans vote against their own interest. The corporate interests walk to the bank with government money and control of the American government.

Joseph C. O'Connor
Former Professional Surveyor and Mapper
State of Florida
Former Reg No. 4562

> What I see is nothing more than the same partisan, ideological nonsense.
>
> Most BORs are budget-neutral, if not making money for their respective states via registration and other fees, and monies collected via adjudications. It's not about budget.
>
> Similarly, most BORs do not "over-regulate". Show me the sector of aspiring small businessmen who are at a loss for economic opportunity due to the licensed surveyor community being too exclusive. Frankly, to suggest this displays complete ignorance and obliviousness, given our many licensed brethren here who are currently struggling to find enough work to keep afloat.
>
> Frankly, the only thing vapid here is this profoundly shortsighted approach that conservative lawmakers take. They automatically assume that government is excessive and overregulating, without even bothering to consider reality. They aren't interested in reality, they are only interested in advancing an agenda of deregulation over everything.
>
> And, as for listening to their constituents, as we have seen from the several constituents who contacted their representatives, and accounts from the state society, where the responses indicate they are getting absolutely no traction. Show me a specific instance where any meaningful segment of the Florida populace sought deregulation of the surveying profession. Frankly, they have demonstrated that they really don't care about the will of the people.
>
> Like I said, it's the race to the bottom. Even third-world nations see the importance of regulating the surveying profession in order to contain liabilities. Yet, we are rapidly falling behind even these.

There is no question that in many things government is excessive and does overregulate. Yes, the approach is simplistic in that they are not attempting to determine which regulating is excessive and which is necessary, and so they are swinging with a wide axe.

The public has been crying out for government to be reigned in for a while. Last November, enough of the public showed that they were tired of not being listened to in this respect that they sent a clear message at the polls. Now the politicians are eager to show progress, any progress that they can hold up and say "see, we're listening and working on it." There has been no major outcry by the public either way about surveyors. Most don't know or care how much we are regulated or if we are regulated. They just don't care.

Surveyors care, and some in other professions who see the potential threat of similar action to their profession care. Pissin' and moanin' about it with silly hyperbole about conservatives wanting to deregulate everything on an internet forum won't do you much good. If you address your state representatives in the same manner, that will be counterproductive.

As soon as you start using words like always, never, everything, and nothing in your arguments, will have already lost the debate among reasonable people and will not convince anyone in a position to affect the outcome, reasonable or not, to listen further.

So are you more interested in saving your license, or more interested in telling us all how stupid and wrong-headed you think all conservatives are?

Even after Enron

Somebody's not seeing the bigger picture...

Come on Joe, you don't really believe all that.

It's a numbers game. There's cost cutting going on. We have the 2nd lowest certified count in the State. If they piss us off, so what? It's not like we're gonna go out and ruin their re-election chances.

I don't believe the Governor would directly target us, but if he did, then he obviously has much to learn about the State's history.

All that Party nonsense is BS. Today the Dems are your friend, next year it'll be the other way ... both parties are fickle.

The war? The country? I come to Surveyor Bulletin Boards to avoid CNN.

If you knew we were going to be dissolved, you should've done what I did, get certified elsewhere.

The other State (which will remain unnamed) only cost me $70 to certify. It's a prominent State too. A bigger lobby.

The republicans ran on a platform of "Regulation hurts business". A republican wrote and sponsered the bill. The head of the committee, a Republican, made it known that no further ammendments would be considered before the public comment hearing even began (they had already made up their minds ... ). Republicans voted 10-0 to advance the bill. The rebulicans wrote back with "form letter" emails emphasising their belief that "Regulation hurts business".

Do you see a pattern forming?

Yeah, it's called "There aren't enough surveyors, nor are they appreciated enough, to create formidable political opposition to my/our future campaign opportunities."

Democrats are doing the same thing. Who allowed Lightsquared Inc. to take possession of the hi-grade GPS frequency bands we currently use? The FCC, a part of the Democrat controlled executive branch.

Half a dozen of one, 6 of the other. We can't worry about all that. Stay on target...

FWIW, I don't think Lightsquared will be an issue. The FCC required Lightsquared to prove that they will not interfer with GPS as part of thier "waiver". The FCC can pull the waiver if they do not comply. This is a report from last Tuesday that gives an update on the Lightsquared testing, and yes, "high precision GPS" used by the "engineering community" is on the list of concerns. All involved seem to be taking this issue very seriously.

In other words, the FCC isn't completely throwing surveyors under the bus.

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/2517

I was wrong about something I posted in this thread ...

Unfortunately, this is not good news.

I was told and relayed that this bill was basically DOA because the bill was not introduced in the Senate for consideration, and the deadline had passed. Well, that's entirely wrong.

This bill is what they call an "implementing bill", meaning that it's a bill that will be used to implement the budget. Implementing bills do not require full consideration of the Senate, and the bill can be brought before the Senate at any time.

http://www.condoandhoalawblog.com/2011/03/where-does-deregulation-bill-hb-5005-go.html

The Florida 281-page Deregulation bill is now HB 5005; this bill number indicates that this is an "implementing bill". Implementing bills are essentially instructions on how budget guidelines will be met.

What does all this mean? HB 5005 just got a LOT easier to pass this Session.