I was speaking with an engineer that I do a bunch of work with and the mentioned that he had to do a flood certification on on a house. I hadn't realized that Engineers could submit those, I always thought it was a Land Surveyor bailiwick.
I haven't done one in some time, no wonder! I took a look at the form and it does say
"This certification is to be signed by a land surveyor, engineer, or architect authorized by law to certify elevation information."
I can understand that elevations could be considered as "incidental to engineering" but how do architects rate in the FEMA cert?
Slightly confused this morning!
Don
I always wondered that myself. I've never actually seen one stamped by anyone other than a surveyor. I would think they wouldn't want that liability. Just like me as a PLS I am licensed to do some minor engineering work in some states but never would. But with the new forms especially I don't see how anyone other than a surveyor could or would do them.
Even though allowed per the Certificate I believe most states statutes would prohibit anyone other than a surveyor from doing the work necessary to complete the form.
Foggy,
I had one a few years back that required too much engineering flood calcs involved. I let an engineer complete. It was in his area of expertise at that point, not mine. Architects are still held to their area of expertise...and if flood calcs are not one of them then they are and should be excluded from filling out. I did study what the engineer did and understand but would still not do one similar.
In New York, a PE can do any surveying except for boundary determination and I think an architect can do anything a PE can do, lots of crossing of lines. In today's world, the PE has very limited exposure to measurement science in their schooling so I believe that those regulations are really outdated. But hard to fight 30,000 PE's with 1800 LS's, especially when the majority of the Engineering/Land Surveying Board are PE's.
One thought is that elevation certs are often done pre-construction using architectural plans. Makes sense for an architect to do those.
Elevation Certificate - FEMA collecting comments on revision
not to highjack this thread, but I just received information that FEMA is currently collecting comments on the expiring Elevation Certificate.
If you would like to see some changes or have suggestions for the form, here is your opportunity to have some input.
The comment period ends on 04/02/2012.
Comments are currently being collected for this revision, at the link below:
Wendell, if you think it appropriate, go ahead and cut this out of the thread and sticky it.
FEMA Elevation Certificate - Owner Certified
Check out Zone A & AO in Sections E & F. The owner can do their own, and don't even need a LS, PE, or those archyturky guys.
I discovered that from somebody here a while ago. On existing homes which I postively know that I will be the bearer of bad news, I often tell them that they don't need me.
I'd rather not be involved than be involved in their potential nightmare that I can't fix.
New construction, no problem. 30 yr old houses, big problem.
FEMA Elevation Certificate - Owner Certified
> Check out Zone A & AO in Sections E & F. The owner can do their own, and don't even need a LS, PE, or those archyturky guys.
>
> I discovered that from somebody here a while ago. On existing homes which I postively know that I will be the bearer of bad news, I often tell them that they don't need me.
>
> I'd rather not be involved than be involved in their potential nightmare that I can't fix.
>
> New construction, no problem. 30 yr old houses, big problem.
Do you also tell the owner that if they do their own, they will likely be paying max flood insurance? If the BFE is not related elevation-wise to the FFFE to 0.1', the underwriters will not be able to evaluate the criteria and availability of rate reductions based on reduced risk factors.
FEMA Elevation Certificate - Owner Certified
> Do you also tell the owner that if they do their own, they will likely be paying max flood insurance? If the BFE is not related elevation-wise to the FFFE to 0.1', the underwriters will not be able to evaluate the criteria and availability of rate reductions based on reduced risk factors.
They'll pay the same rate regardless. I only learned that a yr or so ago, and have had a couple of those A/AO sites I'd just as soon not been involved with. I just present the options in a professional and objective manner. Nobody ever decides to do their own. They think their surveyor can do majic, but I'd rather it be somebody else. Getting creative with a tenth or two is one thing, but 3 or 4 feet....
People get boundary surveys because they want to know. People get elevation certificates & flood insurance ONLY because their bank makes them. Years ago I'd suggest to people to find another bank, but that doesn't fly any more.
Maybe they should buy a different piece of property? One that's not in a flood zone. I've suggested that too.
Not to get P/R, but it's always amazed me how they derive these zones with no BFE, based on 50 yr old 20' contour maps, and make it sacred. FEMA is a bigger joke/racket than ____________ (fill in your own blank). Their objective is to make every privately owned parcel obtain flood insurance, even us zone X'ers. News at 11 on that one.
FEMA Elevation Certificate - Owner Certified
Every county/city that's in the NFIP has a "flood plane manager". I only found this out a few years ago, but if you call the flood plane manager, they can often provide you with a BFE for zone A properties. In fact, if the property is in a platted subdivision of more than (... I forget the number, maybe 50 ... ) X lots, the flood plane manager is required by FEMA regs to calculate and provide you with a BFE for the Zone A. I've made several of these requests over the years, in multilpe counties/cities, and not once had the flood plane manager denied my request. If you look at the El Cert, there is a checkbox under "source of BFE" called "community determined". That's for this situation ...
Also, if the house is 30-40 years old (or older) it may be "Pre Firm" and qualify for a low rate, regardless of your el. cert. results.
Those are some things you could advise your potential cleints on. I don't shy away from these jobs, I think the clients need someone with experience to help them get the best rate.