Doing research for a survey. Found some documents that explain some missing distance. Seems there is a ROW in the old records but its not plotted on the recorders maps.
So my question is the ROW an easement of fee title to the county? Page one of the link is from 1911 is some land and then the ROW deeded to a private party. Then in 1917 the private party deeds the ROW and a couple others to the county.
So I'm wondering whether the county has fee title or just an easement. There is a road there but the landowners think it's a private road. The county doesn't know on many roads whether they are private of public. Welcome to my world!
I haven't looked for a road vacation yet. Doubt I'd find one but you never know
Here is a link to the deeds:
I dunno Leon...
To paraphrase an old [attorney] fried of mine...
"A [insert term such as LAW, Right-of-Way] IS whatever THAT judge says it is THAT day."
Different judge same day, same judge different day, might give a different answer (definition/ruling).
Again...I dunno...looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck........BUT
The fact that both "Warranty Deeds" recite acreages for the "parcels," but NOT for the "Right of Way" makes me a little skittish.
I'd want a WRITTEN opinion from an Attorney that I could fall back on (more or less cover my butt).
Loyal
edit...
Black's Law Dictionary pretty much defines a "Right of Way" in terms of an easement, but there are many cases where that simply isn't the definition held by a court. The very term "Right of Way" always gives me gas...
Chain of Title is the key.
The local counties own a few of their roadway due to highways that were abandoned and the State of Texas transfer the r/w to local County by deed.
Local counties do not keep details in the inventory of their owned land unless it is producing them any income thru lease, timber, mineral or other means of profit.
Change of leadership, change in what is on the list.
The same with strips of r/w of many of the original narrow gauge railway system and deadhead rails to gins and sawmills.
LRDay, post: 379963, member: 571 wrote: Doing research for a survey. Found some documents that explain some missing distance. Seems there is a ROW in the old records but its not plotted on the recorders maps.
So my question is the ROW an easement of fee title to the county? Page one of the link is from 1911 is some land and then the ROW deeded to a private party. Then in 1917 the private party deeds the ROW and a couple others to the county.
So I'm wondering whether the county has fee title or just an easement. There is a road there but the landowners think it's a private road. The county doesn't know on many roads whether they are private of public. Welcome to my world!
I haven't looked for a road vacation yet. Doubt I'd find one but you never know
Here is a link to the deeds:
Based on those two Deeds I would take the right of way as being an apputenant easement. The easement owner probably didn't have the right to dedicate it to the County so that would be void, Bear in mind the intentions of the parties is the paramount consideration so if there is admissible evidence that they intended fee simple then my opinion may change but I doubt that they intended fee simple. Right of way implies a limited use, that of a way. Reading the Deeds as a whole they could've labeled them a parcel instead of right of way if that is what they meant.
Fee simply means it is inheritable; easements can be in fee. Fee simple absolute is the more precise term.
In this case it strikes me that they are deeding in fee to the county. Just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.
I love the first three calls in the first description of the second deed. It gives you three specific bearings to traverse but no distances for each bearing. Sort of a "go south, go west, go south" followed by "now that you are here" go thataway a certain distance.
Back to back opposite opinions. As we know, opinions are like hemorrhoids, sooner or later every a$$#ole has one.
Holy Cow, post: 379980, member: 50 wrote: Back to back opposite opinions. As we know, opinions are like hemorrhoids, sooner or later every a$$#ole has one.
I didn't look at the second deed closely enough. Now I see it's a Warranty Deed to the county with what looks like appurtenant easements, not a public road. Guess I need to plot them to understand better what is going understand.
Holy Cow, post: 379980, member: 50 wrote: Back to back opposite opinions. As we know, opinions are like hemorrhoids, sooner or later every a$$#ole has one.
I thought it was cowboy hats are like hemorrhoids
The term right of way usually implies an easement unless something more is specifically stated, but the way rights of way are treated varies from state to state, so don't take anyones word here unless they happen to be an expert in Utah
If it was an easment the county may only have a private easement , meaning it can be used to access county land but can not be turned into a public road.
Typically our State roads are fee simple unless they were a county road first and simply handed over to the State. Meanwhile, nearly all of our county roads are easements unless they were State roads first and simply handed over to the county. So, either situation is a possibility regardless of who operates the road today.
Finding a deed for a right-of-way is not uncommon as many people thing all roads are rights-of-way. They have no knowledge of what the term is supposed to mean, so they apply the simplest use in their limited vocabulary.
It looks like Frandsen took title to lands with an appurtenant access easement in 1911 except a couple of the parcels not in question here have street access on the south.
Then in 1917 Frandsen granted a portion in Section 22 with the road easement access plus some additional road access across the SW quarter of Section 22.
I would call them private appurtenant road access easements including the one into the county.
The contrary may be shown.
Someone might deed a right of way to a municipality to try to get them to take over maintenance. But, there may never have been an acceptance. The former owner may have abandoned ownership, but with others having the right of use, it made little difference to him. Eventually the county may have owned it because the owner failed to pay taxes.The county may have title in other ways but it still may not be a public road.
Paul in PA
Paul in PA, post: 379996, member: 236 wrote: Someone might deed a right of way to a municipality to try to get them to take over maintenance. But, there may never have been an acceptance. The former owner may have abandoned ownership, but with others having the right of use, it made little difference to him. Eventually the county may have owned it because the owner failed to pay taxes.The county may have title in other ways but it still may not be a public road.
Paul in PA
I forgot about that...in California public agencies must record a written acceptance, not just for roads, for every deed into the public.
Dave Karoly, post: 380000, member: 94 wrote: I forgot about that...in California public agencies must record a written acceptance, not just for roads, for every deed into the public.
Yeah, I wondered about acceptance. The deeds says the county paid 100 dollars for this. Is that acceptance?
I'm doing a survey to adjust some boundaries of some later created parcels just north of the ROW at the east end. These parcels where cut out of the same parcel as the long 20 foot ROW. In the current deeds there is about 20 feet missing along the southerly line. The County Recorders map doesn't show it. So I dig in and go all they way back to patent in 1882 and find this ROW which resolves the question of where the 20 feet went missing. I'm probably just going to leave it but at least now I think I can explain it. Somebody else is going to need to resolve the title issue over who owns or doesn't own it. Actually it's all back under one ownership, that is unless the county owns the strip. I'm pretty sure the county won't even want it but not my decision. The reason to adjust the boundaries is to get the parcels back above 5 acres so they get the agriculture (greenbelt) property tax break.
Don't you just love this kind of stuff.
Also, I'd noticed the run in to the parcel with bearings only and no distances.. Not the parcel I'm working on! And that one isn't an easement. You could probably figure it out with the adjoiners deeds.
For the purposes intended, Quit Claim deed from the county may be required. The Grantor has complete control over what is written in the deed, the Grantee may never be aware the deed was filed.
There may be some information regarding who filed the deed, grantor, grantee or someone else.
Paul in PA
Paul in PA, post: 380005, member: 236 wrote: For the purposes intended, Quit Claim deed from the county may be required. The Grantor has complete control over what is written in the deed, the Grantee may never be aware the deed was filed.
There may be some information regarding who filed the deed, grantor, grantee or someone else.
Paul in PA
If need be, I'll read the county commission records (minutes) for the time to see if they authorized the payment. Might find an explanation for the whole thing.
LRDay, post: 379963, member: 571 wrote: Doing research for a survey. Found some documents that explain some missing distance. Seems there is a ROW in the old records but its not plotted on the recorders maps.
So my question is the ROW an easement of fee title to the county? Page one of the link is from 1911 is some land and then the ROW deeded to a private party. Then in 1917 the private party deeds the ROW and a couple others to the county.
So I'm wondering whether the county has fee title or just an easement. There is a road there but the landowners think it's a private road. The county doesn't know on many roads whether they are private of public. Welcome to my world!
I haven't looked for a road vacation yet. Doubt I'd find one but you never know
Here is a link to the deeds:
"... is the ROW an easement of fee title to the county? "
A right-of-way is always an easement - never fee title...
LRDay, post: 380001, member: 571 wrote: Yeah, I wondered about acceptance. The deeds says the county paid 100 dollars for this. Is that acceptance?
From my understanding a deed statement must include that there was compensation for the land being conveyed or there is no transfer of property.
I have often seen the phrase "for love and affection and the sum of $10" as the wording in that part of the deed.
Had a client that would transfer all the unsellable properties on his list to a certain church association to get the properties off his hands in return for a sizeable tax deduction from his earnings.
I would think that it would take a vote of the County's Commissioners for acceptance and recorded in the minutes of their meetings.
Got the county commission records. The county was buying a gravel pit and ROW to it. The image is very light but readable. The two acres doesn't show in the current records and a scar from a gravel pit is not clear on Google Earth. I'm guessing the county sold back the pit at some later date so I'll need to find that and see if they also disposed of the ROW.
Here is the commission minutes from 1917.
Keep digging Leon. : )
Who has maintained the road?
