I'm taking my FS again this October (passed the PS and state in April). I will be going in this time with the HP35 instead of my Texas Instrument calc again. My question is which program is better for the exam? I currently have the D'Zign software on it but i have read that easycogo is best. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
If your relying on your calculator....your gonna flunk again!
Flunker.
> I'm taking my FS again this October (passed the PS and state in April). I will be going in this time with the HP35 instead of my Texas Instrument calc again. My question is which program is better for the exam? I currently have the D'Zign software on it but i have read that easycogo is best. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
> I'm taking my FS again this October (passed the PS and state in April). I will be going in this time with the HP35 instead of my Texas Instrument calc again. My question is which program is better for the exam? I currently have the D'Zign software on it but i have read that easycogo is best. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
The best software is the package that you fully understand. The software will not help you pass the exam. Good software (that you fully understand) can buy you time. That extra time to spend answering questions is the real value of any software package.
I like to think that the programs we sell (LSW HP 35 and 33 software) are as good as any other. But the bottom line is no calculator will help unless and until you invest the time needed to properly and fully prepare.
If you are interested in more advice on preparing for either of the licensing exams you are welcome to watch this 1 hour exam prep advice webinar.
Not wishing you good luck as luck has nothing to do with success or failure. The keys are hard work, determination and preparation.
Larry P
Wow! Quite professional.
You are correct that if you do not know it well enough to do it without software that you do not know it, but you really need to work on your personality. You come across as a jerk. It might run off some clients with attitudes like you exhibited.
Just saying...
If you are counting on the software to pass the FS, you are not ready for the test. The formulae they provide you at the test are more than adequate to pass the test. You will spend more time studying how to run the software than you will spend learning the math. My advice: sit down with the pages you can download from the NCEES site and practice test books. Run through it again and again and again, learning not just the calculator but learning what the reasoning behind the math.
Billybob survey company.
Billybob, florida USA!
> Wow! Quite professional.
>
> You are correct that if you do not know it well enough to do it without software that you do not know it, but you really need to work on your personality. You come across as a jerk. It might run off some clients with attitudes like you exhibited.
>
> Just saying...
The others are right. There isnt a problem on there that cant be solved with just a scientific calculator. I would look at learning the actual math behind the problems, than trying to learn software.
I didn't think they allowed ANY software or pre-programed calc's on the NCEES tests anymore anyway. Don't they have the option to wipe the calc's before the test?
I also agree with the other guys, if you don't know how to solve the math long hand, or the old way with formulas, what are you doing setting for the test anyway?
> I didn't think they allowed ANY software or pre-programed calc's on the NCEES tests anymore anyway. Don't they have the option to wipe the calc's before the test?
>
> I also agree with the other guys, if you don't know how to solve the math long hand, or the old way with formulas, what are you doing setting for the test anyway?
Not true Norm. They do allow programs in any of the pre-approved calculators.
In fact a few years back an over zealous proctor cleared the programs from a calculator from one or our clients. NCEES ended up buying that person a new preprogrammed calculator.
As for knowing how to do the problems long hand, while that might be best, it is also a huge waste of time to count on solving everything that way during the test. That is why I said above that what the programs do is buy you time. That can be a big deal.
Larry P
> > I didn't think they allowed ANY software or pre-programed calc's on the NCEES tests anymore anyway. Don't they have the option to wipe the calc's before the test?
> >
> > I also agree with the other guys, if you don't know how to solve the math long hand, or the old way with formulas, what are you doing setting for the test anyway?
>
>
> Not true Norm. They do allow programs in any of the pre-approved calculators.
>
> In fact a few years back an over zealous proctor cleared the programs from a calculator from one or our clients. NCEES ended up buying that person a new preprogrammed calculator.
>
> Larry P
interesting... I stand corrected. I apologize.
In all honesty though, I still think someone sitting for the test should know how to work from the formulas and be able to do it long hand.
EDIT: Long hand with a simple scientific calculator that is.
LISurveyor,
Don't listen to these misguided and inaccurate responses. Contrary to most of these replies, there is nothing special about knowing a formula or being a math whiz. That should not lead to a presumption of being an excellent surveyor. Much better to focus on knowing what you are doing; what the role of a land surveyor and how to be useful to your clients and society at large.
I guess the authors of these responses won't use a Tomtom car GPS because it's more important to know the fundamentals of using a road map.
I mean, what do they think a calculator is for??? My 48 has a metric to english conversion. Should I not use it? Should I be putting in the conversion and multiplying? Oh, Lawdy, Lawdy, THANK YOU BEERLEG BOOZERS, YOU HAVE HELPED ME TO SEE THE LIGHT!!!!!
Jesus Christ, guys, use your heads a little before you post.
Good luck on the test, LISurvyor.
Stephen
You Cannot Use Your 48, Because It Is Not Approved
BTW Larry, how did your client with the wiped calculator do?
I think it says something when someone can pass the PLS but not the FS. Besides saying he does not have the better than basic math skills that today's complicated surveying requires, it says he is "not qualified".
As I say all along I wish LISurveyor "No Luck" on the upcoming exam.
Some college education is what is best, in your head, not in your calculator.
In my opinion if you take the FS and PLS at the same time and fail the FS, you should be required to retake the PLS after finally passing the FS to prove it was not just dumb luck the first time.
Paul in PA
>
> In all honesty though, I still think someone sitting for the test should know how to work from the formulas and be able to do it long hand.
>
> EDIT: Long hand with a simple scientific calculator that is.
That is what I used, a TI-36 Solar. Only 1 memory. That is all that is necessary if you are prepared.
With a little time you could pass it with a pencil, paper and a set of trig tables.
😛
Stephen, it is not a test of if you know how to push buttons, it is a test of do you know the math. Any technician can punch buttons, but a professional knows why they chose to use that formula to calculate. With the time they give you, there is plenty of time to use the formulae and work it with a calculator.
On a separate note: you still use a 48 and you knock us. 48's haven't been allowed for YEARS!
For Mr. Paul in PA
> BTW Larry, how did your client with the wiped calculator do?
>
> Paul in PA
She passed the PS national exam but did not pass the State Specific exam that was given after lunch. I think the whole thing with the modiratior insisting (incorrectly) that he had to clear the calculator before she could leave for lunch unnerved her a bit. Plus, she had been studying with her calculator and programs for some months. To throw that stress on top of the existing stress of the exam was too much.
Had she had time to relax and regroup for the State Specific exam she might well have passed.
As for those persons who proclaim the students should be able to do the math without the programs... who says they can not? As I stated above, the programs buy you TIME, not knowledge. Many people have to guess on several questions because they run out of time. That is the real value of a calculator with programs (and formulas).
When you can talk NCEES into letting the exam candidates take days and days to crank out the long hand math using trig tables and pencil and paper, you will be on to something. Until then, keep in mind, time is a precious commodity for most on these exams. Being able to do the math with an unprogrammed calculator doesn't prove any sort of superior skill or talent associated with the characteristics being tested.
Larry P
> Stephen, it is not a test of if you know how to push buttons, it is a test of do you know the math. Any technician can punch buttons, but a professional knows why they chose to use that formula to calculate. With the time they give you, there is plenty of time to use the formulae and work it with a calculator.
>
Georgia, congratulations, you've managed to get it precisely and absolutley wrong. It is not a test of do you know the math. It is a test of do you know which math to use and when to use it. That is what you need a professional for. A test to know how to work a formula is a test for a technician.
Also, you're being inconsistent. Again. If you use a calculator it doesn't become a test of knowing how to push buttons. It remains a test of do you know which formula to use and when.
Again, I repeat my position... do you not use a computer?!? Do you think it's more noble and more honest perhaps to do technical work by long hand? That totatlly mystifies me. I have already given you my argument. Address that if you want me to continue this discussion with you.
> On a separate note: you still use a 48 and you knock us. 48's haven't been allowed for YEARS!
It's completely irrelevant what I use. I'm not taking a test.
Stephen
From your earlier post:
" Run through it again and again and again, learning not just the calculator but learning what the reasoning behind the math."
You see, you're mixing apples and oranges. The reasoning behind the math is correct, that is exactly what he should be studying.
But, it is irrelevant as to whether the formula is worked out longhand or by calculator.
I take that back, it's not irrelevant... it's actually kind of dumb to do it by longhand. Uses more time, subject to error... you get the idea.
IT'S A SURVEY TEST, M' MAN, NOT A MATH TEST!!!!
But you know, now that I think about it, he didn't actually specify. Maybe he testing to be a mathmatician. Ok, then, I take it all back. (humor)
By the way, I'm a Georgia boy, too. I'm currently in MObile. Actually, I'm currently in Eau Claire, WI, but that is a very temporary situation.
Stephen
There is a reason that 1 out of 3 first time test takers did not pass the FS in April and 3 out of 4 repeat takers did not pass in April. They counted on the calculator doing the work for them. If you know how to do the Math - and whether Stephen wants to admit it or not that includes knowing when to use what formula- then you will pass the test. There are 170 questions over 8 hours. That breaks down to one question every 2 minutes 50 seconds. Nobody besides people who like to create strawman arguments said to not use a calculator. We are saying that worrying about which software to bring with you is a crutch. You are not worrying about the right thing: knowing how to solve for the value needed. If you think that the calculator gives you all the answers, you are dangerous. The calculator only gives you answers based on what you put in it. If you choose the wrong formula, it will still give you an answer, just the wrong one. Learn what formula to use, you can run through the test with plenty of time to spare. Otherwise, you will find yourself staring at each question as your 2 minutes and 50 seconds tick away.
Unlike others, I will wish you best of luck. Considering the odds against you, you are going to need it!
The question was which software is better. The poster did not ask for any advice or opinions on his/her skills or knowledge.
Can someone answer the question politely?
Steve
> Can someone answer the question politely?
Based on my experience with internet message boards; I'm leaning toward no.
