I am all charged up about dropping the 2.4 Ghz radio from the rod. I am using a 5601/Ranger (Survey Controller v12.5) setup. I could use some advice and have the following quesions:
Option 1: This set-up proposes to remove the use of 2.4ghz radios (gun and DC) all together. (Possible with external gun battery?)
(A) Can the gun run in robotic mode by serial connection?
(B) Would one BT device connect to the gun serial port by cable, and the other BT device connect to the data collector serial cable? Since I use an enternal battery exclusively, I guess I would need a special cable with alligator clips for battery and 9 pin serial cable connector on one end and lemo connection for the gun on the other end.
(C) If this is the case, does the gun have to be set to route data to the serial connection rather than the internal 2.4 Ghz radio? Or does the gun recognize this automatically.
(D) What about the data collector? I see no place to change the gun connection type to serial cable rather than 2.4 ghz radio.
(E) If this setup type works, would the gun and DC have to be re-setup to use 2.4ghz radios if that was desired? Or does the hardware (gun and DC) recognize this automatically.
Option 2: This set-up proposes to remove the use of the DC external (brick) 2.4ghz radio from the rod and leave it on the gun.
(F) This connection would be one BT device to the external 2.4 Ghz radio and one BT device to the DC, right?
Genral Questions:
(G) What is the practical range of the BT devices?
(H) How much do line of sight and obstacles (bldgs., trees, etc.) affect range?
(I) Suggestions/advice?
Thanks for any help offered,
Scott B.
Hi Scott,
I'm using the Parani radios with my Topcon GPT-8003 and a TDS Nomad. I previously had the Bantam system from Hayes, which I still use sometimes, but I find the Paranis to be more convenient. It really is a plug and play application. All I had to change was the setting in my data collector had to be changed from "Bluetooth" to "serial cable". I attach the radio at the instrument with a normal serial cable and hang it on the tripod with an old cell phone case. The radio at the data collector is plugged in directly to the dc, but you can use a cable if you like that better. The range for me seems to be about 700-800 feet in normal circumstances, but I took a shot of over 1100 feet today looking down a road. It has never been a problem for me.
Line of sight and obstacles are about the same as with your old radios. It doesn't really come into play unless you are a long way from the instrument.
Also, the batteries on the Bluetooth radios last all day. I have never had them go dead with a full charge.
If you would like to see a picture of my setup, just give me your email. I don't see it in your profile, and I can't seem to post the pic here.
My friend Jimmy was using the same radios as you before switching, and I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you about his experience as well.
C Billingsley, post: 362542, member: 1965 wrote: I'm using the Parani radios with my Topcon GPT-8003 and a TDS Nomad.
The Geodimeter/Trimble arrangement is fundamentally different from the Topcon approach, and I've never gotten comfortable with the details. I know that the DC50 required the user to retain the brick radio at the tripod, and the Parani was connected to the brick by wire. There's something about the process of putting the gun into robotic mode that mucks up the simple cable-replacement approach that works with Topcon and Leica. I believe there may be a brick-free method when using a TSC2 or 3, but again the details have never been clear in my mind.
I'd like to figure it out someday, as I have a Geodimeter 640 robot that's just sitting on a shelf.
Jim Frame, post: 362547, member: 10 wrote: The Geodimeter/Trimble arrangement is fundamentally different from the Topcon approach, and I've never gotten comfortable with the details. I know that the DC50 required the user to retain the brick radio at the tripod, and the Parani was connected to the brick by wire. There's something about the process of putting the gun into robotic mode that mucks up the simple cable-replacement approach that works with Topcon and Leica. I believe there may be a brick-free method when using a TSC2 or 3, but again the details have never been clear in my mind.
I'd like to figure it out someday, as I have a Geodimeter 640 robot that's just sitting on a shelf.
Sorry, I didn't know that. As a friend used to say, Pardon my ignorance.
Jim is correct. The 5600 series and Geodimeter must have the brick radio start the instrument. If you bypass the radio, you will not have access to the "search" command. You would be running in Autolock or manual mode.
You can hang the brick on the tripod, which is what I do with my DC50.
To which search commend are you referring? Can you give me a description of the Autolock/manual mode differences?
Bump TTT
C Billingsley, post: 362542, member: 1965 wrote: Hi Scott,
I'm using the Parani radios with my Topcon GPT-8003 and a TDS Nomad. I previously had the Bantam system from Hayes, which I still use sometimes, but I find the Paranis to be more convenient. It really is a plug and play application. All I had to change was the setting in my data collector had to be changed from "Bluetooth" to "serial cable". I attach the radio at the instrument with a normal serial cable and hang it on the tripod with an old cell phone case. The radio at the data collector is plugged in directly to the dc, but you can use a cable if you like that better. The range for me seems to be about 700-800 feet in normal circumstances, but I took a shot of over 1100 feet today looking down a road. It has never been a problem for me.
Line of sight and obstacles are about the same as with your old radios. It doesn't really come into play unless you are a long way from the instrument.
Also, the batteries on the Bluetooth radios last all day. I have never had them go dead with a full charge.
If you would like to see a picture of my setup, just give me your email. I don't see it in your profile, and I can't seem to post the pic here.
My friend Jimmy was using the same radios as you before switching, and I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you about his experience as well.
Hello.
I'm using a GPT8203 with TSC2 using SurveryPro. I'm running into a similar issue (satel radios need re-celled) and am looking for a better option for the unit. In my search I came across your post and am interested in how the configuration looks with the parani BT devices. If you wouldn't mind and if the image you referred to is still available I'd greatly appreciate your input / help.
Thank you.
Eric.
Eric L., post: 396567, member: 12221 wrote: Hello.
I'm using a GPT8203 with TSC2 using SurveryPro. I'm running into a similar issue (satel radios need re-celled) and am looking for a better option for the unit. In my search I came across your post and am interested in how the configuration looks with the parani BT devices. If you wouldn't mind and if the image you referred to is still available I'd greatly appreciate your input / help.
Thank you.
Eric.
Hi Eric,
Send me your email address and I'll send the photo to you. I wasn't able to post it here.
[email protected]
John Evers, post: 362559, member: 467 wrote: Jim is correct. The 5600 series and Geodimeter must have the brick radio start the instrument. If you bypass the radio, you will not have access to the "search" command. You would be running in Autolock or manual mode.
You can hang the brick on the tripod, which is what I do with my DC50.
I assume that the DC 50 must be different. We are using parahnis with a 5600 a nomad with spectra and no brick. Search and everything else works.
I got the Parani SD1000's working on a 5603 and TDS Nomad. Basically just plug in and power on the Parani's and run it like it's a Total Station (non-robotic). I don't believe I have the search feature enabled (at least I don't think) and I have to go back to the gun if/when I take a shot and the gun fails to see the prism, and tap "enter" on the gun. Kind of a PITA, but it works like total robotic non the less. I also don't think I ever had the Robotic's enabled on the gun (maybe that's my problem).
Stacy Carroll, post: 396617, member: 150 wrote: I assume that the DC 50 must be different. We are using parahnis with a 5600 a nomad with spectra and no brick. Search and everything else works.
Stacey,
That means that the Spectra on your Nomad is not utilizing the published command and control structure, but the more direct non-published control structure, which would make sense considering that they bought access to it. If someone had a special "three way" cable with diodes, they could capture what your devices are speaking. Too bad I don't have time for that anymore, as I formerly would have been tempted to investigate that.
Jim Frame, post: 362547, member: 10 wrote: The Geodimeter/Trimble arrangement is fundamentally different from the Topcon approach, and I've never gotten comfortable with the details. I know that the DC50 required the user to retain the brick radio at the tripod, and the Parani was connected to the brick by wire. There's something about the process of putting the gun into robotic mode that mucks up the simple cable-replacement approach that works with Topcon and Leica. I believe there may be a brick-free method when using a TSC2 or 3, but again the details have never been clear in my mind.
I'd like to figure it out someday, as I have a Geodimeter 640 robot that's just sitting on a shelf.
Jim, we have full search and can level the instrument with just Bluetooth. Ours work just like we were using the radios. We don't cable from the collector to the instrument at any point and the brick aren't in the trucks. If you do not run the ground, you will not have full communication. Basically you have to run three, not two wires and on top of that the Parani cannot be powered through the serial and must use their power port. Some TSC3's and some instruments I have tested need the circuits separate as well, so, it is a good idea to separate them with a multi pole switch.
This is the instrument box wiring:
This is the TSC3 box wiring:
The multi pole switches basically switch between cabled and Bluetooth setups. As I said, we never cable anymore. Our "blue" setup has always worked and does not have the multi pole switches, so, that one does cable to get past the level bubbles
Norm Larson, post: 397104, member: 7899 wrote: Jim, we have full search and can level the instrument with just Bluetooth. Ours work just like we were using the radios. We don't cable from the collector to the instrument at any point and the brick aren't in the trucks. If you do not run the ground, you will not have full communication. Basically you have to run three, not two wires and on top of that the Parani cannot be powered through the serial and must use their power port. Some TSC3's and some instruments I have tested need the circuits separate as well, so, it is a good idea to separate them with a multi pole switch.
This is the instrument box wiring:
This is the TSC3 box wiring:
The multi pole switches basically switch between cabled and Bluetooth setups. As I said, we never cable anymore. Our "blue" setup has always worked and does not have the multi pole switches, so, that one does cable to get past the level bubbles
Dang, That is impressive. It makes my head hurt just looking at it!
Norm Larson, post: 397104, member: 7899 wrote: Jim, we have full search and can level the instrument with just Bluetooth. Ours work just like we were using the radios. We don't cable from the collector to the instrument at any point and the brick aren't in the trucks. If you do not run the ground, you will not have full communication. Basically you have to run three, not two wires and on top of that the Parani cannot be powered through the serial and must use their power port. Some TSC3's and some instruments I have tested need the circuits separate as well, so, it is a good idea to separate them with a multi pole switch.
This is the instrument box wiring:
This is the TSC3 box wiring:
The multi pole switches basically switch between cabled and Bluetooth setups. As I said, we never cable anymore. Our "blue" setup has always worked and does not have the multi pole switches, so, that one does cable to get past the level bubbles
Is that a 'clock'?????
Jimmy Cleveland, post: 397108, member: 91 wrote: Dang, That is impressive. It makes my head hurt just looking at it!
Once you get it pulled apart so you can look at it, it isn't as bad. They work perfect on wet cool days, but, we did have some overheating issues on the hot days. Re-design No. 1 coming this winter. The Parani's draw so little power, I thought they could be flush against the cases, um, no they can't. I am thinking a 5mm separation on all but the part where the antenna attaches will be more than adequate.
Norm Larson, post: 397138, member: 7899 wrote: we did have some overheating issues on the hot days.
FWIW, the blurry photo below shows the setup on my Surveyor+. With the cover on there's maybe a bit less than a cm of space between the Parani and the lid, but otherwise it's surrounded by foam. No heating issues through two summers, even at 100å¡F and above. Due to it's position on the underside of the DC, the Parani box isn't generally exposed to direct sunlight, which might help.
There is so little power going through a Parani, your 10mm main face gap is far greater than I gave mine and has to be the root of why you never had an issue. I am just going to add supports within the print to hold it in the air 5mm to each side, I find it hard to believe that won't fix the issue. Are you running a Parani battery or are you powering through the DC like I am?
You will need more wires for your 640 I am afraid, but, hopefully you know how to do it know. If not, PM me. It doesn't look like you are 9600 baud. I left mine there as that is all the radio could take and was designed for.
Our are on the underside as well. I am convinced it was not allowing an air gap, but, testing is the only way to know.
Norm Larson, post: 397149, member: 7899 wrote: Are you running a Parani battery or are you powering through the DC like I am?
I'm powering it through the DC serial port. The gizmo between the red heatshrink is a zener diode to protect against voltage spikes or polarity reversal when the serial port is powered up. I'm not sure it's necessary, but there's a cautionary note in the DC manual about it.
Do that on a TSC3 and they will never hook up correctly and will have complete signal loss or intermittent issues. I could never get our three TSC3's to act the same. I will never know, but, since Tx and Rx need the ground to operate correctly on a Geodimeter, I came to the conclusion that running power with their ground pissed them off.