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Cut throat tactics

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paden-cash
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I have been pursuant to a continuing contract with a client for approximately four years. The work has benefitted both of us and is a good source of profitable revenues.

Originally when I was approached by this client there was another surveyor that the client had relied upon in the past. The client was less than pleased with that surveyor's performance which precipitated asking me for a proposal.

At the time this occurred I had made it Tom Cruise & Jack Nicholson crystal clear that the client was responsible for terminating their agreement with the first surveyor. I didn't feel it was any of my business to even be discussing an agreement until he had cut ties with the first surveyor. I was assured (I have copies of emails) this had been taken care of.

As surveyors do, we all talk with each other occasionally; whether it's a "found your cap on a pin" or a howthehellyoudoing call. I just happened to talk with the previous surveyor the other day and he indicated I had "cut his throat" over that client. It was more of a jovial jab, but I had to pursue the issue. He was pretty convincing when he told me the client had never contacted him back then concerning his work with them.

Now business is business. My request to the then potential client was more of a professional courtesy than a moral rule. I'm a nice guy and all that but I'll cut your throat in a heartbeat...as long as it's a fair fight. Funny thing is my fees are more than what he was charging.

I don't know whether to ask my client about this or not. They keep at least one crew busy all year long. I have a wonderful relationship with everyone over there from the HMFIC to the bookkeeping department; I'd rather not rock the boat.

Looking for some opinions as to "what would you do"?


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 3:22 pm
ctompkins
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Greenback Tactics

I would brush it off and keep putting the checks in my business account. That was only HIS perception....not necessarily the reality of the situation.


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 3:28 pm
shawn-billings
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Sounds like the previous surveyor knows he isn't working for them anymore. Hopefully your client has cleared the books with him. We do things the same way here. You got to fire him before you hire me. But in this situation, at this point, I'd say "sleeping dogs" and all...


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 3:30 pm
carl-b-correll
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Paden,

It sounds as though you have a guilty conscience about this, and that's not all bad. Nobody wants to take food off of someone's table. But, if you have to, to clear your conscience, show the other surveyor the emails that made it clear that the entity were to cut ties via whatever notice they stated. You can't help it that the other business entity didn't hold up their end of the bargain. You might also nudge back to the other surveyor that if he'd performed better, he might still be under contract to said entity.

I don't think you cut his throat, it sounds like he cut his own and is looking for someone else to blame.

Carl


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 4:24 pm
andy-j
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I would do nothing but keep working and making money.

EOM.

Andy


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 4:34 pm

Marc Anderson
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Seems like this just happens all the time around here....

I've unfortunately come to expect it.


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 4:37 pm
andy-j
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Well, ultimately, you don't know who is really telling the whole story, but since it's been a good relationship since then, I would tend to believe my client and just keep working... Not everyone gets along, for all kinds of reasons.

OP did NOTHING wrong. why risk losing a good contract over that??


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 4:45 pm
clearcut
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I don't know. Maybe bill him for some of the hours you spend on Beerleg.com to call it even for him not cutting a clean break?


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 5:08 pm
holy-cow
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I'm going to send this thread on to the HMFIC just as soon as I figure out who that is.;-) But, since he seems to like the title, HMFIC, he probably is not too concerned about what anyone else thinks.:-P I happen to be HMFIC around here so long as SWMBO is absent.:'(


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 5:56 pm
Deed Staker
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> I don't know. Maybe bill him for some of the hours you spend on Beerleg.com to call it even for him not cutting a clean break?

[sarcasm]Perhaps trying to stuff a couple rolls of ribbon in your mouth would prevent these types of smart a** responses.[/sarcasm] :-X


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 6:15 pm

mike-marks
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> I have been pursuant to a continuing contract with a client for approximately four years. The work has benefitted[sic] both of us and is a good source of profitable revenues.
>
> Originally when I was approached by this client there was another surveyor that the client had relied upon in the past. The client was less than pleased with that surveyor's performance which precipitated asking me for a proposal.
>
> At the time this occurred I had made it Tom Cruise & Jack Nicholson crystal clear that the client was responsible for terminating their agreement with the first surveyor. I didn't feel it was any of my business to even be discussing an agreement until he had cut ties with the first surveyor.

?? Don't sweat it.

The relationship between the client and the prior surveyor is none of your business. Many bigger players contract with several local surveyors on a rotating basis, don't know why and it's none of my business to know.

OTOH it's wise to contact the prior surveyor and find out if he's been stiffed or not. We are all brothers in the bond (and I believe that's mostly true) but beware, some shops will cry out "the guy owes me $50,000, don't contract with him until my lien is cleared" and your legal beagles discover that's not the case at all; no lien, no court filings, a flake.

It's harder in rural areas where there's few surveying firms and everybody's at the bar on Thursday night baseball. But, big venue or small, to tell a prospective client he must terminate all prior relationships with similar consultants is a bit presumptuous don't you think?


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 6:26 pm
paden-cash
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presumptuous?

>... to tell a prospective client he must terminate all prior relationships with similar consultants is a bit presumptuous don't you think?

Not at all. At least in this particular instance. To start with, I was to be picking up on a number of jobs he had left unfinished..for whatever reason.

I just wanted his STOP bar and my GO bar to be the same place in the dirt, that's all. And I really didn't think it was my responsibility to call him up and tell him. That responsibility belonged to the client.


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 6:56 pm
Williwaw
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Never really pictured you as a 'cut thoat' surveyor/business man.
Now I imagine you with an eye patch. 'Take no prisoners' Paden Cash.
You got'm all fooled. 😉

In all seriousness? Nothing. Enjoy success with a clear conscience.


Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : April 21, 2015 7:01 pm
paden-cash
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> You got'm all fooled. 😉

Sticking it out in this business for an entire career will either destroy you, or teach you how to get your share of the loot.

Walk softly, but carry a BIG stick.....


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 7:05 pm
bill93
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Either the client did not make it clear to the previous surveyor that he was being terminated for a reason, or else the previous surveyor thinks that's just an excuse and you initiated the change.

If he brings it up again, tell him you didn't offer your proposal until you had been told any previous surveyor was off the job. Of course he may not believe you.


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 7:43 pm

RADAR
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> Walk softly, but carry a BIG stick.....

Float like a butterfly; sting like a bee

B-)


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 7:45 pm
Kent McMillan
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> I would do nothing but keep working and making money.

Yeah, in this fact situation, what would you do differently? Presumably Paden's colleague has already reoriented his practice to sending field parties to Central Texas to make ALTA/ACSM standard surveys for 10% of what a real survey would cost.


 
Posted : April 21, 2015 11:57 pm
DeletedUser
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“Looking for some opinions as to "what would you do"?”

…….nothing, look forward B-)


 
Posted : April 22, 2015 4:55 am
RETIRED69
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I must say, I often ... well, kinda often, did work for other survey's clients.

Almost always, it was when the other surveyor couldn't get to a job in a timely enough fashion.

... and I've had clients, at times, use other surveyors and still come back to me for the bulk of their work.

Sometimes I was a little dismayed at the situation and I'm sure the other surveyors were also, but I was always open about it and I always urged the clients(his, mine, whatever), to be open about it and not burn a bridge they don't have to burn.

Some clients I lost ... some clients I gained.

It's business.

My business is surveying.

My client's business is being an attorney, a real-estate broker, a land developer, a speculator, a farmer, bail bondsman, doctor or a home-builder, and I long realized they think a little differently about this "special", relationship with their surveyor(s).

I would have never lost a client, if clients were always 100% happy with me ... now, would I?

... it's life ...


 
Posted : April 22, 2015 5:29 am
Kris Morgan
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Paden

Let sleeping dog's lie. I had a client similar to your friends situation like this. Worked for years like this but he always kept asking if we needed help because he had another firm. I had a crew chief make a mistake one time and he blew it up into such that management allowed him to get the other firm. I believe he was "on the take" from that company.

Funny thing is that management, not my handler, kept using me for legacy projects but no new work and within 6 months, the other company (from out of state) was doing my work.

If you have the email's, then your relationship with your client is solid. If he said he did and the other guy says he didn't, then at some point, you will become your friend. Either way, ride the wave till it breaks at shore.

I have to sleep at night, so I tend to play VERY fair, right up until someone pop's me and I didn't know it was a fight. Then, I employ Israeli foreign policy tactics because I do not believe in a proportionate response. 🙂


 
Posted : April 22, 2015 6:09 am

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