Many of the “County Lines” (boundaries) out here, are DEFINED as either “along the Summit of X Mountains,” or the hydrographic divide between the X & Y drainage's, or some such logical, but vague “line.”
VERY FEW of these “lines” have EVER been surveyed, let alone monumented. Not only THAT, but in some cases, the ACTUAL “hydrographic divide” is nearly impossible to determine without a VERY detailed Topographic study.
HOWEVER...due to Tax Sales (Sheriff's Deeds), and various other “descriptions” that CALL “to and along the County Line,” these Boundaries show up from time to time (more often than one might expect).
Most of the County Line Boundaries that HAVE been surveyed (and monumented), were executed in the late 1800s by a JOINT effort of the County Surveyors on BOTH sides (which is GREAT).
Of course “we” as private surveyors don't have the authority to DEFINE said County Line, so we can find ourselves in a survey version of the Kobayashi Maru scenario.
How do other handle this mess?
Loyal
We have similar situations here.
About 30yrs ago a new County Surveyor decided to have the office abolished because it had no salary and the county did not furnish any office space.
The office did have its perks because of a few points of Texas Law that enabled the County Surveyor to be allowed to make surveys outside the duty of the "public" surveyor. Locating the County's boundaries being one of those.
There are not enough population for it to be a concern and the Sulphur River and the State boundary are the only known and located boundaries on the ground. The others are a line on a map.
😉
Mighty Moe has some county line experiences that make you want to go :-O
Nobody seemed to care until revenues from coal bed methane became an issue between certain counties. Maybe when he get's in from findin some more "stick" corners today he can pipe in.
Pablo B-)
Of all the counties were I normally work, there is only one case where a County Line does not follow section lines. That is a case of an Indian Treaty Line being the County Line. I've only had to work next to it once. And, that was not significantly different from normal. Several nearby counties also have State Lines, but, I've never had to work up next to any of those, yet.
My home county is 24 miles by 24 miles with all sides being section lines. The south line is also a standard parallel.
I was hired one time to locate a county line so a guy could charge someone with trespassing. It was one of those ridge line boundaries. Now I'm not authorized to determine a county bounty. The guy took me to where the culprit was caught. The county sheriff wouldn't take action before it was determined what county they were in. It turned this one was easy as it was quite a bit below the ridge line, not any question which side of the ridge it was on and which direction the water would flow. If the guy had been caught on top of the ridge it would have been a problem though and there was confusion about lots in a mountain subdivision as to what county they were in.
I don't think county surveyors can by themselves determine a county line. Both legislative bodies would need to be involved and then under direction or authorization from the state. Then by the proper authorization the county surveyors would do the work which would need to be accepted by the counties and the state.
Like you say, definitely a mine field for the private surveyor.
> My home county is 24 miles by 24 miles with all sides being section lines. The south line is also a standard parallel.
And that, my friends, is the joy and beauty of living and working in PLSSia 😀
Using the below article to attempt to "define terms", could you not use your GIS mapping of choice and trace the geographical boundaries from that? A disclaimer could be used to explain what you did and that the accuracy and area are subject to what an actual field survey might produce. This method also speaks loudly to using SPC as the cooordinate basis of the solution. Not saying this is fool proof but certainly better than just plain guessing.:-)
PS-ignore the girl in the tshirt, not actually part of the definition:-)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kobayashi%20Maru
County Lines - Parish Lines
Here in Louisiana, they sometimes resemble the Hattfields and the McCoys. A very famous and very complicated dispute over millions of dollars per year in tax revenues involved Frank Willis. The work he did to win the case for his client (his Parish) was nothing short of spectacular. I often invite him to speak to my students when I teach Boundary Surveying. Makes for a mighty good "recruiting tool" for new aspirants to the pursuit of a Land Surveyor's License here at LSU.
> Many of the “County Lines” (boundaries) out here, are DEFINED as either “along the Summit of X Mountains,” or the hydrographic divide between the X & Y drainage's, or some such logical, but vague “line.”
> VERY FEW of these “lines” have EVER been surveyed, let alone monumented. Not only THAT, but in some cases, the ACTUAL “hydrographic divide” is nearly impossible to determine without a VERY detailed Topographic study.
> How do other handle this mess?
The simplest way to handle that one would seem to me to be to get the two adjoining counties to agree to a line fixed by courses taken from some georeferenced imagery. So you miss a drainage area line by a couple of hundred feet. As long as the line is readily determinable, I'd think that problem is solved.
> My home county is 24 miles by 24 miles with all sides being section lines. The south line is also a standard parallel.
ehem... if my county was THAT small I wouldn't be talking about it in public....:-$
Kent
I have tried that before...
Some counties don't have a County Surveyor, and those that do, DON'T (usually) want play ball.
Getting the County Commissioners to even listen to such a proposal, is pretty much a non-starter.
Of course when there appears to be a buck in it (taxes, etc.), then things change.
Loyal
Kent
> Some counties don't have a County Surveyor, and those that do, DON'T (usually) want play ball.
> Getting the County Commissioners to even listen to such a proposal, is pretty much a non-starter.
Well, if the County Commissioners don't particularly care that the boundary between their county and that adjacent can't really be located, then that certainly is a problem. But if they do care, defining the boundary via readily available maps and/or imagery would seem to me to be a bargain solution for all concerned.
> Of course when there appears to be a buck in it (taxes, etc.), then things change.
In the cases I'm aware of where county boundaries have been resurveyed, there usually is some other issue related to it that needs to be settled. So, if there is no perceived problem other than some surveyor saying he can't find the county line, I can see how the County Commissioners might not give the matter a very high priority.
There was a case, here, in 2004, that still hasn't been resolved...
Dispute turns on vague Pierce-Kitsap county line.
That's one of those jobs that I just can't talk much about+o(
I guess I can say the job number is 2004 so that's how long it's been going on.
Maybe it will be resolved after I retire.
Murder on the County Line
I ran across the notes and sketches of a survey made by two county surveyors/engineers over 100 years ago. This involved a neighboring county and the county on their north border. Apparently, an early home was built on a farm that had land in both counties. The house turned out to be sort of wopperjawed, but, directly on the county line. The victim was in the kitchen and the fatal shot was fired from the living room into the kitchen. Based on the testimony of others present, the actual location of the shooter and the shootee were pinpointed. The house was surveyed relative to the county line and a determination made as to which county each person was in at the time of the shooting. I forget how it worked out, though. The goal was to get the correct jurisdiction to handle the proceedings.
In New England, virtually every square millimeter is covered by some lowest-level municipality; mostly towns, but also some cities and gores. So a county boundary problem becomes a town boundary problem. Then there's Connecticut, which abolished county government when I was in grade school. (I seem to recall things might be different in Maine.)
Murder on the County Line
Van Valkenburg's myster called Mayhem in the Catskills has confusion over a county line as one of its minor plot points. He has law envorcement trying to figure out who should do what.
But I think your case where the murderer and murderee are in separate counties in one house beats that.
Your state legislature has already "defined" the county line.
You are simply laying it out. The problem is getting someone to agree to pay for it.
Good point Carl!
The real problem is getting folks to accept it.
😉
Loyal
Here is the World Famous County Surveyor surveying the County Line.