OK, "Not-my-real-name"
Nate,
Why not call a 1/2" rebar a 1/2" rebar?
And a 1" rebar a 1" rebar?
And a 3/4" O.D. a 3/4" O.D. iron pipe iron pipe?
Whats a SIP and a FIP?
OK, "Not-my-real-name"
> Whats a SIP and a FIP?
SIP is Set Iron Pipe, FIP is Found Iron Pipe.
I'm definitely not going to put bull prick on a survey. LOL.
Yes, that is normally a tool and probably not cost effective to use for monuments.
I don't care if you set blue gumballs as long as you accurately describe them on your plat/report.
You know, I pride myself on making a good faith attempt at being the most erudite, elitist, snobbish bastard on this message board and even I find this original post to be insufferably pedantic.
> Okay...reading the whole thread, I think I gathered ...
Including the OP, I gathered that we are difficult and argumentative and pedantic bunch of yahoos...and I am one too.
No we're not!
> You know, I pride myself on making a good faith attempt at being the most erudite, elitist, snobbish bastard on this message board and even I find this original post to be insufferably pedantic.
[sarcasm](What a jerk James!) [/sarcasm]
Seriously, I find often mislabled stuff. 3/4" id pipe, is called a 1" pipe, because it is 1" od.
So, I do make a big effort to properly label my plats. And to say stuff like:
"Found hewn pine knot in large old rock pile. Set 30d spike under pine knot."
I do actually describe stuff.....
Surveyors MEASURE. That is what they do. They should NOT estimate.
Like, when surveying a river, use a disto, or a yardage pro, and MEASURE to both banks, (now I admit it) I estimate the thalweg, AFTER getting the overall distance.
We should measure stuff.
N
Makers Mark? now I want whiskey. B-)
While you have a slight point, it gone a bit to far. If one goes to the doctor, not feeling well and after the doctor examines he or she does he say "You have viral nasopharyngitis" or does the doctor say you have a cold.
As an EMT we are constantly encouraged to speak in medical terms people can understand. It can relax someone once a professional explains to them whats going on, in easy to understand terms. When you fill out paperwork, then that is the time to be 'technical'.
OK, "Not-my-real-name"
>SIP is Set Iron Pipe, FIP is Found Iron Pipe.
Among people in the business, you'll probably be understood more often than not. For a survey drawing, the terms are only good if there is a legend to explain them.
Sorry Joe, but I am the odd duck. I actually tell my doctor that I want him to use the proper medical terms. I usually understand them (perhaps due to having a broad education or just to insatiable curiousity), and when I don't, I can ask. I hate dumbing down...
Imagine this: haying season is getting under way, and it is time to have men in the haymow to stack the bales that are coming off the wagons. There are wasps’ nests in the eaves, so you go up there with some spray and nail a few nests, being careful to keep the spray off the bales that are already there. As you come down the ladder, a fellow farmhand says, “You kill all em wawses?”
You say something like “Don’t know. Got a bunch.” Among the inadvisable responses is “It’s not them waspes, it’s those wasps.”
Again. Two people, maybe not English majors, are working on a piece of farm machinery, and one of them says, “Hand me them snap-plars.” The other one says, “You call them thangs snap-plars? I always called em vise-grips.” Here we have a discussion of language, but neither participant is troubled with the differences between them and those.
The quality of the work these speakers are doing is probably not a function of their knowledge of grammar.
Now, as the screenwriters say, cut to a physician’s office, where you are seated on the examining table, looking across the narrow room at an X-ray picture on the light box. The doctor is beside the picture, with a pointer.
“Now,” he says, “you see five dark spots right here. Them are lesions of some kind.”
English is not his second language. How’s your confidence in him holding up? [sarcasm]What are you, some sort of snob?[/sarcasm] Is the quality of the physician’s work a function of his knowledge of grammar?
There seem to be varying expectations when it comes to whether or not someone’s language sounds knowledgeable, expert, and professional. These expectations rise and fall depending on what is being done.
As to whether James Fleming is more elitist etc. than I, consider that for a while his avatar was a picture of G. K. Chesterton . . . taken when G. K. wasn’t fat. Sure stumped me.
Cheers,
Henry
Don't care much for the term "Pins"...
... but it doesn't really bother me all that much.
When referring to objects placed to mark corners, if there are a variety of object materials or types, I refer to them as "monuments", or often "mons" as a shorthand term. But that might really drive our OP over the edge if he recollects back to his sex-ed class in high school.
I'll often use the common proper term for certain types on mons... PK, Mag Nail, 60d, spike, conc post, etc.
The most common type of monument set by surveyors is either a rebar or an iron pipe. In my area, that's typically a 5/8" rebar or a 3/4" (ID) iron pipe with a plastic, aluminum, or occasionally, brass cap.
When speaking of this last type of monument, I generally prefer the term "ahrns".
Is that precise enough to pin it down for you?
Oh, and by the way, you really are being a linguistic elitist about it. The important matters are that what you set is sufficiently durable to last many decades or more, and that you used proper evidence and procedures (applied professional expertise) to determine where you would set that point. IMO, how you perform your work is worth quibbling about. Worrying about colloquialisms is a potential contributory factor to an ulcer or a stroke.
Today I described the tolerances we work to and achieve running electronic levels for tunneling operations as being "tighter than a whores heart".
col·lo·qui·al·ism
k??l?kw???liz?m/Submit
noun
plural noun: colloquialisms
a word or phrase that is not formal or literary, typically one used in ordinary or familiar conversation.
the use of ordinary or familiar words or phrases.
I was speaking in casual conversation with a TBM mechanic and feel that given the audience it was a acceptable sentence, although to be honest I am a bit remiss to post such on a internet forum.
In the description of monuments relating to property I have always endeavored to go the extra mile, even so far as to throw in a rp for a prop cor or mention where constructed center line is for a street mon.
My personal favorite is MIC TYP.
The language Surveyors use is appalling. The fact that it catches on with members of the public is even more appalling. If we are to foster a profession it should begin with our attitude toward the language we use.
Not sure if you are just excercising your distaste of 'pins', but I often wonder how you'd go in a pub here discussing surveying, or in your version of a 'drinking hole'.
Two surveyors discussing a job and ending in "I'll be down tomorrow with my gun and shoot a few pins and fix that pesky neighbor at No 25 once and for all. Be sure to get here early when there's no one about to interupt"
Would someone overhearing such a conversation take it in their stride?
Here your 'pin' would be called a corner peg to the general public, and then if further needed describe the actual mark placed.
Iron Pin
indicates a long ferrous object, may be a pipe, may be a rebar, may be a 12 penny nail. I have found and held a plowshare and a meat grinder. I once searched for and found a called for "harrow tooth". Almost every time I have searched for an axle, I find it with a gear. Last week I looked for an iron and found about 1/3 of a gear protruding from the base of a 48" sycamore. The tree was to the South and the axle was 0.05' North of line, "Oh what should I do, what should I do?"
As to the 12 penny nail, it was 0.5' below the centerline of a paved road, when I got to the head it fell off the nail along with the cloth ribbon under it. The shank was carefully shot and held. it was about 3/4s of the way along an other than the road 10' wide stone row. Should it be ignored? BTW, the head and cloth ribbon were replaced.
Paul in PA
> You know, I pride myself on making a good faith attempt at being the most erudite, elitist, snobbish bastard on this message board and even I find this original post to be insufferably pedantic.
Thank you James and that is why you are liked here. Someone had to do it and you stepped up to the
task along with your colleague Nate. 😉
So when we are trying to follow a really bad survey we should call it a substandard representation of the property and not a P O S (hopefully no legend is required)? I am in partial agreement with your statement; however, I believe we have much larger issues than this.
"The language Surveyors use is appalling."
"Colloquialisms are out, in a precision business."
I once worked with a construction crew, in Chicago, O'hare airport, and around. They used some pretty foul language. The trees were always trying to mate. The van was too. As I recall, everything was either mating, or trying to.
And, there were many Colloquialisms.
Cold as a witches T*t.
I'll tell you, they could make a mechanic blush. Even a Plumber. It was plain scary.
That bunch would be hard to reform. One of them had a brain aneurysm. The owner of the company always called him Sh*t for brains. I suspected it too. But, the boss should know.
It's gonna be a tough sell to reform about 200 yrs of ticks, chiggers, camping in the woods, and dealing with clients, realtors, and the like.
Pass the coffee please.
N