This is not a new topic, but it has recently hit close to home. I have looked at buying two different rural acreages with house and out buildings. The first was 20 acres and the second was just over 5 acres. I was outbid on one and passed on the other due to price. I did go through all the paperwork both times with the real estate agent. She was clueless about boundaries and didn't care.
I went to the courthouse and researched the deeds and previous surveys for each property. I plotted out the boundaries on aerial images and walked both properties. During the paperwork for the 20 acres the real estate agent stated to me that the legal description was the East 1/2 of the NW 1/4 of the NW 1/4. (An aliquot part). My research indicated that the boundary was actually in both parts of the two halves of the NW 1/4. I told her not to keep writing on the paperwork that it was the E 1/2, NW 1/4, NW 1/4. She was baffled. I showed her a copy of the deed and the survey from 1985. Still clueless. She finally agreed to make copies of my documents and write "see attached documents".
Then we got into all of the costs involved with purchasing an acreage. Full house inspection - $500, appraisal - $500, termite inspection - $300, well test, sewer test, radon test, lead based paint paperwork, title insurance, and many other things. I asked about the boundary lines and if the fences were located on the lines. She just stated she assumed they were. End of discussion. I know the east fence in the 20 acres is at least 30 feet off to benefit the neighbor. (This is not a discussion about old fences). The far boundary on the 5 acres blends in with the neighbor's property and would be hard to find by any non surveyor.
About six years ago a local gal in my small town started her own real estate company. I have known her for years and have had a good relationship with she and her husband. I stated that I would be happy to define property lines if one of her clients ever asked. I gave her some of my cards. She asked me what I charged. I said "it depends". She didn't like that answer. She has never called me.
My point? The termite inspector benefits from EVERY home sale, while a land surveyor rarely if ever gets called around here unless there is a problem. We are well below the termite inspector.
Maybe below the termite?
> About six years ago a local gal in my small town started her own real estate company. I have known her for years and have had a good relationship with she and her husband. I stated that I would be happy to define property lines if one of her clients ever asked. I gave her some of my cards. She asked me what I charged. I said "it depends". She didn't like that answer. She has never called me.
Jerry, I hate to restate the obvious, but the real problem is that the real estate hustlers do not have any vested interest in (a) termite inspections that are so thorough they turn up damage from wood-destroying insects and (b) land surveys that turn up potential problems. Both can scare potential buyers away from the closing table and prevent upstanding citizens in the so-called real estate profession from banking a fat commission check in a timely manner.
So, unless you're undertaking to guarantee that your survey will never, ever blow a closing, you're marketing your services to the wrong party.
Kent, you are absolutely right. I have often thought about marketing to the buyer after the sale is complete, but by that time they are tired of spending money, whereas all those other costs leading up to the closing are just part of the process.
I just bought a property with house this summer, about 5 acres. I was a Fannie Mae foreclosure. They paid for a title policy that covers most of the things usually written in the exceptions including the boundary. There was no survey but I did check it out myself, no real problems. I think that title insurance companies have insured and re-insured properties so many times that they have basically figured out what the risk is to go bare without a survey. The few that go bad they will just pay and come out ahead overall by avoiding surveys and the problems they bring. Just my take on it. I wouldn't be planning an income from doing real estate surveys. Maybe there is good work where they want an ALTA on a commercial property that includes all the topo and other stuff needed to do some development. I don't think title insurance companies hold surveyors in any higher esteem than surveyors do of the real estate/title industry. Too many problems dug up from the past by surveyors that don't have a solution to offer and time is wasted getting a property through a closing. I don't even want to do such work.
The driving force is money, and the lenders are cautious about some things and not others. The feeding frenzy is over.
In the last 6-12 months, I've experienced an increase in the number of BUYERS who want the property surveyed before closing. Chalk it up to dumb luck, I don't know. Unfortunately, the responsibility to hire a surveyor falls on the seller, and they might be the worst clients.
Surveyors are too often the bearer of bad news. This scares the heck out of all those who do not make a penny unless the deal closes. The more reasons we can list as to why a survey SHOULD be done simply adds to their list of reasons why a survey SHOULD NOT be done. Thus, it is very understandable why we are looked upon as the red-headed stepchild in real estate transactions. Fixing a few termites and adding guttering are minor items compared to some of the nightmares we unearth.
We finished a typical job today where the buyer is paying us prior to closing. However, we may have to go back and make an adjustment. The fence that they have assumed was on a quarter-quarter section line is merely a convenience fence as that quarter section has never been split since day one. An aerial view clearly shows the fence bowing over 50 feet near the middle from being on a straight line. Because of steep hills and lots of trees, you can't really notice this on the ground. We put the east line of the tract they are buying on the true QQSL, not the fence. A mere difference of 34 feet at our southeast corner and about 0.7 feet at our northeast corner.
Bear the bad news before they sell
There is a hillside near where I live that consists of high dollar view property. Most of the descriptions are by allocate parts or came from allocate parts in the beginning and now are 1-3 acre parcels. The section has never been broke down! So what if a surveyor sought out areas such as this and did a mass mailing to the property owners, informing them of possible ramifications of their unsurveyed lines or improperly surveyed lines. They are now informed of possible boundary problems that they would have to disclose before selling, and bingo, a surveyor might have a couple years of work sorting out the mess. Just a thought. Jp
