Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
HP 35 it came out in the early 70's no longer needed trig tables or logs. Made computing a breeze.
Only the tools used have changed, surveying still has the same goals today as the goals of the Ancient Egyptians. What drives the tool changes is population density, land values and labor costs. The advancements in Surveying Instruments has been desired and even made possible is by taking advantage of technical developments. Surveying tools having a limited market have not lead the way or even provided the need for advancing technology. Those who are advancing raw technology have had other motives than the improvement of surveying tools.
jud
Changing Technology in Surveying - TOPO
plane table alidade - spent a many of hours / days getting sore neck and back using one of these
one thing that was nice. is you got to draw the topo and you would know that everything was shot.
not to mention 75 shots could produce a good topo.
and now a days 500 shots is the norm.
the photo is the type of k&e that i used
I am not sure of the time frame this tech. was used.
Those were the days!:excruciating:
Changing Technology in Surveying - TOPO
The table I used was sized for 24" X 36" paper. Used 3 different Alidades one with a Beaman Arc attached. Remember the bending over all day even with a right angle prism attached so you could look straight down, those Alidades were inverted images, then put the prism on and left was right and the image was vertical. Glare was hard on the eyes after a day in the sun.
jud
Programmable calculator and
EDM.
Plus the fact that they arrived in relative synchronousity in the time line made a light year jump in production with the added value of quick and reliable QC of work.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
:good:
Another real time saver was the cell phone (when used for outgoing calls only!), which allows me to keep in touch with my office, and allows questions to be answered while in the field.
Something that hasn't changed..
..in "our" world of surveying: the spirit level.
Whoever built the pyramids had that technology. Whoever designed and built the Roman aquaducts used a level and a rod. All of my trucks today have levels and level rods in them (and yes, we peg them monthly).
With a buttload of GPS equipment and software we can mimic the functions of a level and determine "elevations" in reference to gravity and its effect on fluid. But in my mind there is still no arguing with a good level loop on a construction site.
famous quote:;-)
"Nobody will ever find that 0.04'." - Imhotep
I look forward to reading your article. It can surely provide insight into the challenges faced by the surveying profession. The technical/equipment changes are quite dramatic and need to be documented/highlighted.
A separate (maybe follow-up) article could also be written about the more abstract and conceptual changes we've encountered. That is the "kick" I've been on for some time. For more information see http://www.globalcogo.com/refbyefb.html
In particular, I'd invite readers to visit:
#22 3-D A challenge for surveying in the 21st century.
#29 Digital revolution begats the global spatial data model (GSDM).
#30 Viewing spatial data from a 3-D perspective.
#34 3-D datum for a 3-D world.
#47 challenge/opportunity for spatial data users worldwide.
#55 Future of surveying
I put most of these ideas into the book I wrote on the 3-D GSDM. The following link will provide:
http://www.globalcogo.com/status.html
- information on the 3-D book
- Table of contents
- Preface
- Foreword
Note - the Preface and Foreword should be of particular interest.
FYI - most of the information in the book is available on the Global COGO web site. Admittedly, the material is organized better in the book.
I really believe that surveyors and the surveying profession have a lot to contribute to spatial data users in many disciplines. And, you are quite right, it includes the technology of data collection and manipulation. Go surveyors!
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
evolution of topographical equipment is impressive .., the use of today the total station and gps geodesic is paramount .. unfortunately I feel that currently prepare people use these devices only offer, not surveyors, surveyors unaware of current laws as essential as trigonometric ...
Everybody and his brother has access to the same technology we do, and it keeps getting easier to use. I think the contribution the surveying profession can make will be to determine the quality and reliability of the data, whatever the source, make sound judgements based on that, and then be able to explain and defend those judgements with confidence and authority. It would be nice to be the driving force behind technological advancement, but face it, surveying is not where the money is.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
> Now if you want to stay competitive you need 40K worth of base and receivers...not to mention 5 to 10K worth of whatever graphics software you prefer.
>
> In my mind, the capital investment required to maintain a presence in the industry has at least doubled, if not tripled.
And all this dough spent on a depreciating asset that only produces cash when either you work or pay others to work, this is a BS way to make money.
Forget that plan, take the same money and invest in education or appreciating assets and you will have made a great decision.
Total stations lose value faster than a car, more along the lines of a computer which makes it an awful item to have to purchase, the moment you make the purchase money starts leaking from your pocket at a high rate of speed and volume.
If you spend 50k on equipment, plus another 30-40k on a truck/gas, and then pay employees to run it....well you are in a big hole right off the bat.
Any successful wise entrapreneur looking at this objectively would say no way no how...
A disciplined investor wants to be richer when he goes to bed than when he woke up, buying all this equipment is like trying to swim while holding a concrete block.
To make any decent money with these losing expenditures the scale of your operation better be huge with great demand otherwise you will suffer and barely get by all the while working you rear end off and incurring professional liability all along the way.
There are much easier and more fun ways to make money.
Ya the cell phones have been great. But what about the pager years.
I remember having to stop what you were doing and hike back to the truck
to call the office and answer some stupid engineers question.
> Ya the cell phones have been great. But what about the pager years.
> I remember having to stop what you were doing and hike back to the truck
> to call the office and answer some stupid engineers question.
I remember doing that too, stop pack it up and go look for a pay phone, it was an especially a PITA in rural areas, it usually knocked a dent in that days productivity.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
Most of that investment allows surveyors to work with ever decreasing demands for labor. With $50k worth of today's field equipment, I can do as much by myself or as part of a two man crew than a three man crew could do in the 1980's with $50k (adjusted) worth of 1980's equipment. I pay more upfront, but reduce the cost of labor over time.
We're using a total station we bought in 2003. Spread out over ten years, the depreciation doesn't look so bad. Today, it's probably worth about 20% of what we paid for it originally.
Also, you'd probably be surprised to see how much it costs to start just about any business. Surveying definitely requires a substantial upfront investment, but when I consider what it costs to be in earth moving, 100k starts to sound like peanuts.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
>
> There are much easier and more fun ways to make money.
Care to share any of these?
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
> Most of that investment allows surveyors to work with ever decreasing demands for labor. With $50k worth of today's field equipment, I can do as much by myself or as part of a two man crew than a three man crew could do in the 1980's with $50k (adjusted) worth of 1980's equipment. I pay more upfront, but reduce the cost of labor over time.
I think that a multiplier of about 2.10 approximates the rate of inflation from 1985 to 2012. So a $9,000 total station in 1985 dollars would have cost $18,900 in 2012 dollars. Your figure of $50,000 in 2012 dollars for the value of equipment that was going into the field with one survey party in 1985 sounds very high.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
> >
> > There are much easier and more fun ways to make money.
>
> Care to share any of these?
- Study wealth.
- Find a good mentor.
- Invest in education and appreciating assets.
- Hold high ethics, keep a high standard of integrity.
- Keep your ego in check and serve others.
- Always go the extra mile.
- Always consider ROT (return on time)
Set wealth as your goal.
Changing Capital Investment in Surveying
> > Most of that investment allows surveyors to work with ever decreasing demands for labor. With $50k worth of today's field equipment, I can do as much by myself or as part of a two man crew than a three man crew could do in the 1980's with $50k (adjusted) worth of 1980's equipment. I pay more upfront, but reduce the cost of labor over time.
>
> I think that a multiplier of about 2.10 approximates the rate of inflation from 1985 to 2012. So a $9,000 total station in 1985 dollars would have cost $18,900 in 2012 dollars. Your figure of $50,000 in 2012 dollars for the value of equipment that was going into the field with one survey party in 1985 sounds very high.
Probably right, Kent. Not including a vehicle, what would you consider the cost in 1985 to outfit a crew (in 1985 dollars)? I'd guess $15k - theodolite, edm, level, tripod(s), poles, prism(s), plumb bobs, machetes, saws, hammers, shovel, schonstedt, tapes, etc.
