Boundary line

Ingress and egress would be an easement. Your common boundary is the same - subject to the 50' right of passage. That is, no permanent structures within that strip. It's possible that the 50' strip is centered on your common property line. Did you receive a map or drawing showing this?

Michael harwell, post: 392885, member: 11340 wrote: The Surveyor who Provided the legal description of our Property left a (possible gap) clause on Our Survey..This was between our Neighbors..
Previous Years,the same Surveyor had Surveyed the Neighbors Property...This was a 50 foot ingress/egress...
Is the Surveyor responsible to resolve this gap?

Over the years I have found several locations where the descriptions on record, prior to my work, disagreed. I most states anyone can write a description and a survey is not required. The result is a bit like the old story of a group of http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/blind_men_elephant.html&apos ;">blind men describing an elephant. Although each description is the honest opinion of the writer it may be that none of them provide the full picture of what exists. One of the gaps that I encountered was the result of errors made before the Civil War by a court settlement dividing an estate. No survey and even the judge got it wrong.

Surveyors should examine the descriptions of all properties adjoining yours and understand the full picture. However the surveyor is not able to resolve the problems without the agreement of all property owners involved. It is advisable that each property owner be advised by an attorney.

I've never seen a "possible gap" clause.

Matt,

I include a "gap" disclaimer all the time wherein I refer to the distance between my brain and my skull.

JRC

Michael harwell, post: 392885, member: 11340 wrote: The Surveyor who Provided the legal description of our Property left a (possible gap) clause on Our Survey..This was between our Neighbors..
Previous Years,the same Surveyor had Surveyed the Neighbors Property...This was a 50 foot ingress/egress...
Is the Surveyor responsible to resolve this gap?

It sounds like Warren Smith might have figured out what you are thinking is a possible gap. You might provide a sketch or the legal descriptions and point out what you are thinking is a possible gap so someone here might be able to explain it better. And/or call the surveyor who wrote the description; s/he might be able to clarify for you.

Provide an excerpt of the "Gap Clause" you are concerned about and you will probably get some relevant comments.

Hopefully you have first contacted this surveyor and requested clarification before coming here?

The Surveyor left a Gap between my Tract and my Neighbors tract.My Neighbors was Surveyed first.
The Previous Owners that Owned our Property, had a larger tract and wanted to carve out 10 acres out of it to sell.
The Surveyor Surveyed 10 acres out of the larger tract of land and we bought it.
The Surveyor left a gap between our Property and our Neighbors.
Should he of closed this gap.It's 2 to 5 feet wide,the Surveyor says he's not sure?

You mentioned ingress/egress, and that is why I thought what you called a gap was an easement. It sounds like the owner might have reserved a strip of land for himself (possibly for being able to access a property that would require taking that path? It would be good to try to figure out why that gap was created, to better understand the intent of the deeds. Your deed could possibly have language like "thence {bearing and distance} to the [adjoiner's line]" or he could have had wording in the legal description "to a point 5' from the [adjoiner's line], thence on a line parallel to said [adjoiner's line] xx distance.

It sounds like neither of the scenarios were used, though, if the surveyor didn't know for sure what the intent was. If you thought it was a mistake, and you can find the previous owner one of you could possibly ask him to deed you the gap....

None of us advise you completely what to do without viewing some of the documents.

Michael, will you post the wording of the Gap Clause?

Tom Adams, post: 393390, member: 7285 wrote: You mentioned ingress/egress, and that is why I thought what you called a gap was an easement. It sounds like the owner might have reserved a strip of land for himself (possibly for being able to access a property that would require taking that path? It would be good to try to figure out why that gap was created, to better understand the intent of the deeds. Your deed could possibly have language like "thence {bearing and distance} to the [adjoiner's line]" or he could have had wording in the legal description "to a point 5' from the [adjoiner's line], thence on a line parallel to said [adjoiner's line] xx distance.

It sounds like neither of the scenarios were used, though, if the surveyor didn't know for sure what the intent was. If you thought it was a mistake, and you can find the previous owner one of you could possibly ask him to deed you the gap....

None of us advise you completely what to do without viewing some of the documents.

According to the Surveyor the (possible Gap) was (probably) part of a much larger tract many many Years ago..The problem I have is the County Engineer is not going to recognize a 3.8 tract inside my 10 acre tract unless this gap is resolved.The 3.8 is a corner tract.
The same Surveyor Surveyed both our Properties and left this gap between them.There is no Owner.My Neighbor has recently purchased the land and to date has not responded.

Michael harwell, post: 393407, member: 11340 wrote: According to the Surveyor the (possible Gap) was (probably) part of a much larger tract many many Years ago..The problem I have is the County Engineer is not going to recognize a 3.8 tract inside my 10 acre tract unless this gap is resolved.The 3.8 is a corner tract.
The same Surveyor Surveyed both our Properties and left this gap between them.There is no Owner.My Neighbor has recently purchased the land and to date has not responded.

Legally speaking, there is no gap. If your tract was cut out of a larger tract, and your tract does not extend to the parent tract line, then the owner of the remainder of the property owns the gap.

Your situation is a prime example of why I hate planning and zoning. If there truly is a gap there, it's not your problem, and it certainly isn't the business of the engineer. If he doesn't want a gap there, he shouldn't have allowed it to be created years ago.

The intent of the Grantor will decide where the boundary exists.
A proper metes and bounds description should call for the location to exist with the parent tract when that is the intent.
Sometimes close is evidence of intent. When the gap is uniform and wide enough to be a path and can be proven to be a path, then the gap is a path.
I would need to research the chain of deeds form the creation of the parent tract leading to the creation of your two or more deeds and read each of them to be able to make any decision.

One of my latest projects covers several hundred acres of land that was self measured since the 1920s and the distances mean nothing as nothing relates to where anything is on the ground.
What is contained within fences is very close to what was granted.

Simply because a distance is measured from a far monument to the east and another was measured from a far monument to the west and there remains a gap does not mean there is a gap.
A gap would exist when the Grantor's intent created a gap.

:8ball::bomb::dizzy:

Tom Adams, post: 392991, member: 7285 wrote: It sounds like Warren Smith might have figured out what you are thinking is a possible gap. You might provide a sketch or the legal descriptions and point out what you are thinking is a possible gap so someone here might be able to explain it better. And/or call the surveyor who wrote the description; s/he might be able to clarify for you.

Michael harwell, post: 393427, member: 11340 wrote:

Here is the Survey, please note the possible gap clause you may have to zoom in.. Also note the disclaimer on Survey, This Surveyor has not conducted a Title Search to depict matters of records etc.. Under the Texas Administration Code 663.13 it says your suppose to search the foot steps to find the History of the previous Surveyors...
The Surveyor does not take respondsibility and wants me to Pay Him to reset points and get a Real Estate Attorney to draw up a Boundary Line agreement with my Neighbor..

A Harris, post: 393417, member: 81 wrote: The intent of the Grantor will decide where the boundary exists.
A proper metes and bounds description should call for the location to exist with the parent tract when that is the intent.
Sometimes close is evidence of intent. When the gap is uniform and wide enough to be a path and can be proven to be a path, then the gap is a path.
I would need to research the chain of deeds form the creation of the parent tract leading to the creation of your two or more deeds and read each of them to be able to make any decision.

One of my latest projects covers several hundred acres of land that was self measured since the 1920s and the distances mean nothing as nothing relates to where anything is on the ground.
What is contained within fences is very close to what was granted.

Simply because a distance is measured from a far monument to the east and another was measured from a far monument to the west and there remains a gap does not mean there is a gap.
A gap would exist when the Grantor's intent created a gap.

:8ball::bomb::dizzy:

Here is the Surveyors response to me:
We did performed, according to TAC 663.16 research of adequate thoroughness to support the location of the boundaries of the land being Surveyed, as we had the previous deeds of record, found all called monuments (for yours and the adjoining tract), and in turn found to be a gap between the two surveys as they are described on record and found on the ground. At that point we simply wanted to show the existence of such a gap as at the time we were not sure of its source,and found Mr. Kolodzie discovered and represented the same gap years before.
We only found the possible source/cause of the issue after you asked us to do some historical research back several generations to find out some information regarding the 3.8 acre deed that was supposed to have been taken entirely into our parent tract at some point in the past.This is how we discovered that a portion of that 3.8 acre tract was not in fact included..
I spoon feed them the 1961 Deed for Months before they would address it..

I am not familiar with Texas law but I believe you are misinterpreting the wording located within the plat.

The note regarding the survey was completed without the benefit of a title report typically suggests no title report was given to the surveyor from a third party during the course of the project, usually by a title search firm. Sometimes these reports are given to the surveyor for high profile surveys such as Alta surveys or commercial projects with large loans/money involved.

Secondly the surveyor didn't state "no record research..." was performed during the project. He states "...other matters of record". The surveyors duty for a boundary survey is to preform the necessary record search (note I'm not saying title) to determine his professional opinion of the boundary only. He is not required to determine all easements, restrictions, set backs and other features that may effect the property.

Lastly, having not been a part of the project I cannot relate to any conversations or meetings you and the surveyor had during the course of the project. Nor have I seen or read any of the deeds or other records in regard to this particular instance. But by depicting the possible gap in the records I am assuming such evidence exists in the records. If this matter was discussed with you during the course of his contracted service, I feel he met his obligations on the matter. Again, this is without having seen anything relating to this property (other than the plat). If the records have created such a gap, he has shown it on his plat, and if it was discussed with you and no further steps were taken during that service, it becomes an unresolved area. It is also possible that there was an intent by original parties to leave a strip between the tracts. The image blurs on me when I try to zoom in very close and read details within the plat but sometimes we come across purposeful strips left between parent tracts and interior parcels. They are commonly called "devil strips" in our area. But I don't know enough about your case to know if that is even a plausible answer.

His suggestion of hiring a lawyer and getting a boundary agreement to dissolve the gap is justified and I'm guessing was probably at least suggested at the time of his original contract with you. Either way, depending on the terms of your original contract with him, it was an unforseen issue with the boundary. In the past or at present, you would have most likely seen additional cost in clearing the matter up.

Once again, everything I have stated is solely opinion and without benefit of seeing the property, the records and all matters involving your particular project. I am also ignorant to boundary law, minimum standards and standards of practice within Texas.

Every State has a slightly different 'solution' in cases like this. Most of them would hinge on the Deed language. Absent language reserving the 'useless strip', no such reservation exists. That meshes nicely with the habit of 'interpreting against the grantor' to prevent sneaky spite strips.
In the States where I practice we would sit down to an unofficial mediation session. At the end I would prepare an agreement and have the owners execute. In a complicated case I would suggest review by an Attorney, but I tend to avoid feeding them where not required.
Keep in mind every state is different and not all Surveyors will do the agreement work. The State definition of practicing law may push it to the Attorney.
Good luck, Tom

Michael harwell, post: 393431, member: 11340 wrote: Here is the Surveyors response to me:
We did performed, according to TAC 663.16 research of adequate thoroughness to support the location of the boundaries of the land being Surveyed, as we had the previous deeds of record, found all called monuments (for yours and the adjoining tract), and in turn found to be a gap between the two surveys as they are described on record and found on the ground. At that point we simply wanted to show the existence of such a gap as at the time we were not sure of its source,and found Mr. Kolodzie discovered and represented the same gap years before.
We only found the possible source/cause of the issue after you asked us to do some historical research back several generations to find out some information regarding the 3.8 acre deed that was supposed to have been taken entirely into our parent tract at some point in the past.This is how we discovered that a portion of that 3.8 acre tract was not in fact included..
I spoon feed them the 1961 Deed for Months before they would address it..

thebionicman, post: 393464, member: 8136 wrote: Every State has a slightly different 'solution' in cases like this. Most of them would hinge on the Deed language. Absent language reserving the 'useless strip', no such reservation exists. That meshes nicely with the habit of 'interpreting against the grantor' to prevent sneaky spite strips.
In the States where I practice we would sit down to an unofficial mediation session. At the end I would prepare an agreement and have the owners execute. In a complicated case I would suggest review by an Attorney, but I tend to avoid feeding them where not required.
Keep in mind every state is different and not all Surveyors will do the agreement work. The State definition of practicing law may push it to the Attorney.
Good luck, Tom

Too be sure,the Surveyor had cut out 58 acres out of a Parent tract in 2000 ,then in 2012 cut out our 10 acres out of the same Parent tract leaving a (possible gap) between them..The same Surveyor did both Surveys.Would it have been prudent to close any possible gap,if there was no intent from the Parent tract to leave one?