This could have gone under the education heading as well. In the course of my studies, I will be taking a class called Public Land Survey System this fall. The required text is the BLM Manual of Instruction 2009. I have a copy of the 73 Manual. Can anyone tell me what the major differences are?
In a nut-shell... They're not even close to the same. You'll definitely need the 2009 Manual.
JBS
Far too many to make it worth while to try and get by with a 1973 Edition and a couple of Internet Posts.
A lot depends on just WHAT will be covered in your class, and what questions will be on your tests.
I think that you are just going to have to knuckle under and buy one, or (better yet) find someone to loan you a copy.
Loyal
polelock
where is this class? i might sign up for it
Thanks guys. That's what I wanted to hear. Just didn't want to buy one if it said the same thing in different words.
polelock
Great Basin College in Elko, NV.
polelock
good thing i get 60 mpg deezin'
polelock
They have the last two years of a bachelor's degree in Land Surveying/Geomatics online. If you have had the two semesters of Fundamentals of Surveying with labs and also have an associates degree, they offer the rest online.
Here's what the BLM uses to cross reference between the 73 and 09 Manuals for their CFedS program. FWIW, get a new one.
polelock
David has provided the source for a very interesting link:
http://cot.gbcnv.edu/~elithorp/DisL.htm
Cheers
Derek
You should get a 2009 Manual for your study and professional reference IMHO.
To get a little advanced jump on your training, and to demonstrate some of the differences, the BLM Presentations made at State Land Surveying Conferences and other professional forums are available on line:
Also, there are great introduction videos about the changes in the 2009 BLM Manual of Surveying Instructions located on the web at:
I think that few of the respondents have noticed that the OP appears to be in West Virginia.
Absent any plans to relocate maybe a thousand miles from there, the 2009 Manual will be a doorstop once his course is over. It's not required for practice in West Virginia or anywhere near there. It's required because the school is in Nevada. And I've heard nothing but good about GBC's surveying program, it's just that there is a huge difference in boundary surveying between WV and NV.
My recommendation would be that someone out west loan him a copy to be returned when the course is over. Or perhaps an inter library loan.
The book he really needs is "Compass Land Surveying" by F. Henry Sipe.
Horse Hockey!
Carl, depending on where he is in West Virginia, he might be able to throw a rock into the PLSS.
There is MUCH more to be gleaned from The BLM Manual (especially the new one) than just PLSS-specific procedures. It doesn't really matter where you are in the United States (even Texas). Some of the issues addressed, concepts discussed, legal considerations brought up, and Field Methods described, relate the RETRACEMENT SURVEYS EVERYWHERE (the same can be said of most of the preceding Manuals).
Besides which, the whole point of the opening post, related to a survey program (SCHOOL) in which the whole fricking point is to PASS THE STUPID TEST, and therefore get the degree!
🙂
Loyal
Horse Hockey!
Yes, he can throw a rock into the PLSS, specifically the Old Seven Ranges, the Ohio Company Lands...
And what is the 2009 Manual's relevance in retracing surveys there?
NONE
It may contain procedural grains of truth valuable to surveyors everywhere, but is it the only textbook which contains them? Is it the best?
I am constantly amazed at the almost religious attachment of some surveyors to the latest iteration of the Manual. That attitude has done more damage over the years to the profession of land surveying than probably any other source, in my opinion.
I have seen green, lazy, and undereducated surveyors grab a Manual and double proportion in obliterated section corner after section corner without actually going to the trouble to determine if they were actually "lost". I have seen physical evidence and state case law ignored in deference to the Manual. The damage has been most particularly in states which were patented out completely in the 1800's.
It is just mischief making by some surveyors in western states, still mostly owned by the federal government, and still under the tutelage of the BLM, to recommend the 2009 Manual as some kind of cure-all super surveying text to those in the earlier parts of the PLSS, and even, in this example, of a metes and bounds state.
And if my post had been read to the end, it would have been apparent that I noted that the OP needed to pass a Nevada college (which I praised) course and needed the Manual to pass it.
polelock
The Great Basin College Land Surveying/Geomatics program is NOT ABET accredited and in my humble opinion, this fact should void Nevada's degree requirement. I do not know why anyone would waste their time or money pursuing a non- accredited degree that could be rejected by another jurisdiction.
CV
Horse Hockey!
A complete education in surveying to a B.S. degree covers a lot of territory including many things not even related to surveying. At least one class that covers the PLSS should be in there for every surveyor with a whole career ahead of them. Never know where you might end up. Even the general ed has use for a lifetime. There is more to life than just a small focus in one little area.
I've done a lot of school. Some stuff I never thought I'd need came in handy. Some stuff I specialized in I never really used. Some stuff I avoided I found out I should have done or paid more attention. Many forks in the road before the final turn.
polelock
No the program is not ABET accredited (although they are in the process of accreditation, and should be accredited by around 2016). I am pursuing the degree for personal growth and satisfaction, not because it is required by some jurisdiction. I am licensed in two states and the 4 other states I plan on becoming licensed in only require a two year degree. The fact that it is not accredited doesn't bother me in the least. It will most certainly teach me things that I need to know. I took surveying classes at Southern Polytechnic State University in Marietta, GA and business, biology and chemistry classes at Marshall University in Huntington, WV. There is not an ABET accredited surveying program within 3-4 hours of here so the distance learning program at GBCNV is a great fit for me. Marshall University has an ABET accredited Civil Engineering program but it only has one basic surveying class. I have a family to support therefore I can't just jump ship to go back to college.
polelock
> ... I am pursuing the degree for personal growth and satisfaction, not because it is required by some jurisdiction. ....
Outstanding. I wish more people had this sort of attitude about lots of things. There are plenty of things we all should do in the name of pride and professionalism and not because something is required or because we will get "credit".
As you probably are well aware, doing things like this sends a powerful message to your kids. It shows you value education. Lessons like that are priceless.
Larry P
Acceptance vs.“credit”
You sound like a good and motivated man. I intended no offense to yourself. My “beef” is that the GBCNV Geomatics Program triggered the baccalaureate degree requirement for licensure in Nevada (the requirement hinged on such a degree being made obtainable within our state). I’m not opposed to the intent of the requirement but I feel strongly that it should have hinged on an accredited program to ensure that those who invest substantial time and money are assured of acceptance in other jurisdictions.
CV
Acceptance vs.“credit”
We have a similar situation in WV. There is not an ABET accredited surveying program in the state. Glenville State offers a four year program and there are a couple two year programs at other institutions. Most state laws read "...four year degree accredited by ABET or approved by the board...". I spoke with Dr. Elithorp about this before enrolling in the program at GBCNV and he said that he didn't know of any issues with graduates becoming licensed in other states although he did advise me to check with each individual state about their acceptance of the degree. He also informed me that they are in the process of accreditation with ABET.
