I just get a call from a builder, Farhad. The city needs what he terms as a 'line' certificate. Not sure what that means, but for now, it's not important.
Here are the few things that I have found out so far.
A 'survey' was done in 2003. The property is such that a RS needs to be filed. Nothing was filed. The 'surveyor' NEVER set any corners. He marked the corners with a spot of paint and Farhad said he "dug holes where the corners were". Such bad representation of our profession.
Now, this is a flat lot in Pasadena. It is just 8,000 sq. ft. The lot is surrounded by recorded condominiums so there is plenty of control. Farhad said that he laid out the cassions and the city would not accept his work. I asked him how many cassions were involved, and he told me there were fifty. 50! I thought I misheard him but yep, another over designed building. I mean like with 50 cassions...yikes!
He is sending me some PDF files, so until I get those you know as much as I do on this job. I do not think I have ever seen an 8000 sq ft lot with 50 cassions involved when it's a table top piece of property.
Any 8,000 sf lot requiring say, $65,000 worth of caissons (cost around here, probably a lot more in CA) would be a bit unusual. So whatever you charge to fix the "line" problem should seem reasonable.
boy, the line of red flags flying on this one is never ending. good luck, a lesser surveyor might run away and hide!!
The survey
Just got this from Farhad..man did he get shafted
The survey
That is not a SURVEY. That's a pretty picture with little worthwhile data.
Many years ago I worked with a builder client named Farhad Nikjay (sp?), but that was in Florida. I don't know if he's moved out west or not.
The lack of boundary data on that survey makes me wonder if California has a provision for doing "Topo only" surveys. That's allowed in Florida, but you have to put note saying "This is not a boundary survey" on the drawing. It would, of course, depend on what the client asked for and expected, as well.
As for the drawing itself, I've seen so many surveys like that, with giant text here, tiny text there, text on top of text, leaders and text not aligned, can't tell where the spot elevations were taken, bearings not in any order, etc. ... some surveyors never learned to draft.
The survey
> That is not a SURVEY. That's a pretty picture with little worthwhile data.
It's not even a pretty picture... it just looks like it means something because it was drawn in some CAD program. But since about 90% of the general population can't read a survey plat anyway, somebody has no idea that they got really got a basically worthless end product.
I trust you are going to take steps with a Professional Practice Committee or Board of Registration to go after the offender?
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
> I trust you are going to take steps with a Professional Practice Committee or Board of Registration to go after the offender?
There is no signature on that map. WYSIWYG. No seal..nada, what proof would PPC or the board have? Who would one talk to?
I looked up the guy that I think did the survey. He's a civil registered in the 48000 bracket, way past the cut off number that allows civils to do survey. I have a name but I don't have any proof.
The survey
>...somebody has no idea that they got really got a basically worthless end product.
He knows now Carl. He said he paid about 2 grand for that POS in 2003
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
My friend Margaret calls this type of print out (the presented PDF) a "cheese plot". Not 100% sure what she means by that. Anyhow, it is a very poorly-produced drawing. I do not understand how this got out the door.
:beer:
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
Paul,
Do you need a signature to file on this guy? You have a client that has told you something about him, why not pursue it from that angle? Find out as much as you can about him from your client. If you have enough information to proceed from there, you would be protecting the public by turning that guy in, wouldn't you?
At the very minimum, you should make contact with the person whom you think performed the work and if he is the one who performed the work in question, let him know just how many things he did wrong.
Of course, there may be a second side to the story. Maybe it's not a boundary survey, but just a topo and planimetric. Maybe his seal was cut off when the reproduction was done. Maybe it is just a preliminary exhibit.
Good luck.
Does not look like a survey to me
It looks like an early release of an unfinished engineering drawing. I'm guessing the client said something like:
"Can you send me a preliminary copy of a plan with the elevations turned on."
It obviously is not a finished copy.
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
I presume Farhad has the 411 on the guy. I would talk to him.
We are the only ones to police our profession. We are the only ones who can judge what is good professional practice.
To see bad practices and not take action is wrong. I know we are taught not to tattle tale growing up. But to tolerate bad practice by not taking action, is wrong as we are the peers in charge of what our profession stands for.
No one else will.
In my county, Mecklenburg, North Carolina, the standing committee of the planning board doesn't require a surveyor, just a civil engineer. The zoning commission has an ordinance officer for maps that is not required to be a surveyor. Besides policing ourselves, we need to advocate for a seat at the table and require each person sitting there know there table manners (the best practices of their profession).
What really galls me is one of the required planning commission seats is a bicycle advocate, WTF is that?
The survey
Wow that is a work of art.
If Salvador Dali was the surveyor.
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
Wouldn't someone have a contract with the person who provided the map? Aren't there laws against someone passing themselves off as practicing land surveying without a license, and/or minimum standards if they were a surveyor?
I would hope that there is a trail here and someone who could be held liable. Is it a matter of the contractor cutting corners and not employing the appropriate professionals?
The survey
On a side note; does the Pasadena Quad book publish elevations to the thousandth of a foot? Isn't that a little presumptious?
Bad representation of Land Surveyors - Clearcut
> No one else will.
No one else CAN. To the laymen a copy of the assessors map showing lines and numbers is no different that a certified survey showing lines and numbers, except the PRICE. Some engineers think that the assessor gets all his bearings and distances from record surveys so they have already done any research needed.
For sure that map represents something preliminary in nature. No clue on the face as to source, no date, no particular purpose defined, and no understanding whatever of graphic clarity or presentation. No title or title block, no legend. No benchmark no defined datum or bearing base.
That map could have been assembled by any techy learning to use cad. But I will say I have seen many similar maps used by engineers and architects as a basis for design. Just wait until they get to the point that they can't get approval without a certified boundary. Then they find out about the easments underlying the foundations.
Looks very much like a client shopping real hard to find the cheapest possible service to get to breaking ground.
There still are some building permits issued on sketches with lots less chicken scratch shown on them than that one. All they got to do is tranfer the napkin sketch on to the proper form.
The survey
> He knows now Carl. He said he paid about 2 grand for that POS in 2003
Before I pass judgement I'd like to know how much calling around for the lowest cost Farhad did in 2003. $2000 didn't buy as much surveying in 2003 as it does now. Then I'd like to hear the story about how the surveyor gave out a preliminary map for the meeting and never got paid to finish, etc, etc. Still it is a pretty crappy map, but maybe there is more in the $2000. This is just what Farhad can produce 8 years later.
There are usually 2 sides to these stories. I'm not sure what a caisson is but Farhad seems to have installed 65 of them at great expense with no layout or corners and then called a surveyor to the site for the first time in 8 years. So I'll look forward to hearing the surveyors side of the story.
