aluminum disks in concrete

Depending on the diameter of the countersink bit you'll need a pretty strong hammer drill to run it but mine work great in both asphalt and concrete.

Jimmy Cleveland, post: 423999, member: 91 wrote: Good evening everyone,

I am looking at some specs for setting some benchmarks, and some of them will be set in existing curbs, sidewalks, etc. The specs mention using a cement mixture to adhere the monument to the existing concrete.

Has anyone used the Fast Plug anchoring cement for markers from Berntsen? What about the countersink bit?

Thanks in advance for any responses.
Jimmy

I standardly use a quick-setting anchoring cement to set stemmed tablets in existing concrete. It works great. Any sort of anchoring cement designed for anchoring embedded items in concrete, such as anchor bolts, would work. Brand names ought not to matter, although products made in Texas may be expected to be stronger and better performing.

You just mix it to the consistency of thin yogurt in a plastic cup with whatever mixing tool you favor and pour it into the hole you've pre-drilled in the concrete structure with a bit extra in the recess under the tablet in order to fill any voids.

Then, when the cement has taken intial set, you just scrape away any excess cement that has oozed out and end up with a neat installation.

Jimmy Cleveland, post: 423999, member: 91 wrote: Good evening everyone,

I am looking at some specs for setting some benchmarks, and some of them will be set in existing curbs, sidewalks, etc. The specs mention using a cement mixture to adhere the monument to the existing concrete.

Has anyone used the Fast Plug anchoring cement for markers from Berntsen? What about the countersink bit?

Thanks in advance for any responses.
Jimmy

I have used both, well the bit may have been procured at a competitor 🙂 Pretty easy to do, I always get the aluminium concrete makers with a button magnet attached or drop one down the hole, makes them sing pretty good and much easier to locate in the future.

SHG

I've set disks in both concrete and in granite. Used a Hilti with a couple of starter bits, then switched to the Berntsen bit that scores the disk area. I used anchoring cement bought at Home Depot, caulking tube type. It sets up pretty fast, so it was best to have all the holes drilled and ready, or the tube would seal shut.

We have always used epoxy, rather than cement when affixing disc's to concrete. 5 ton sets up pretty quick. We used a standard concrete drill bit and a little oil to cool the bit along the way.

We use the 36 Volt Drill that Bernstein sells along with the counter sink bit. We have used the Fast Plug that Bernstein sells and it works fine. We have started using Loctite Epoxy. It is a 2 part epoxy, just put equal amounts of each in the hole then insert the cap. The epoxy is a little more convenient than the Water Plug. We had some guys set a few caps and they used Strong Tie, the caulking gun dispenser. They had one instance where the adhesive expanded and pushed the cap put. Their instillations were not as neat as Water Plug of the Loctite Epoxy.

Here is a link to the Epoxy that we use from Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-8-fl-oz-Professional-Job-Size-Epoxy-1365736/100371835

A few rules with cement based products.
1 The faster it sets the sooner it deteriorates.
2 The wetter the mix the sooner it deteriorates.
The driving factor for the base mix should be the host material. Any more things are well labeled as to what they best adhere to. Poly based liquids are awesome for making the mix self sealing. Stay a little on the dry side and it should last longer than any Surveyor I know.

BTW, the fast plug is available at least some of the home improvement centers http://www.homedepot.com/p/DRYLOK-4-lb-Fast-Plug-Hydraulic-Cement-00917/100553093 . I look at 100 year old NGS mons set with concrete and think it works pretty well, so that is why I use a cement based product 🙂 I carry small paper cups and a bag of popsicle sticks in the truck, easy to mix and dispose of the cup and stick and no mess to clean up. My experience with any epoxy or caulk is it is ALWAYS dried out or hardened when you need it!

SHG

Thanks guys. Looks like the DRYLOK stuff is the way to go. I'm looking at ease of use and most importantly stability and longevity.

We use the smaller Berntsen copper monuments that countersink with a plug that doesn't require epoxy. They are not huge, but are easy to set and wont come out unless the laws of gravity somehow reverse. I guess it all depends on how much information you need on the actual monument.
http://www.berntsen.com/Surveying/Concrete-Survey-Markers/BP-Series-Markers-for-Concrete/ctl/ViewProduct/mid/585/itemID/403

GregPendleton, post: 424141, member: 168 wrote: but are easy to set and wont come out unless the laws of gravity somehow reverse.

It takes a lot more than reverse gravity to get those out. I had to reset a couple that I mistakenly placed a couple of tenths wrong. At first I thought I'd be able to pop them out with a hammer and narrow chisel, but gave up on that approach pretty quickly. I ended up drilling through with a stem-diameter bit until the cap came off, then patching the resulting hole (with stem still firmly in place) with anchoring cement. Once those things are set, they're set for good.

Thanks guys. In this case, the actual disks will by provided by the client. We will be actually installing them in either a drilled, countersunk hole, or a new bell monument type installation.

I have used fast plug, epoxy (Hilti two part), and Gorilla glue. The Hilti epoxy can have a tendency to set really, really fast on a hot day. Just have everything ready to set the disk when you pour the epoxy. The Gorilla glue will expand and push the disk up. This can be solved by placing something on top of the disk for a while. All three will hold well.

Jim Frame, post: 424164, member: 10 wrote: It takes a lot more than reverse gravity to get those out. I had to reset a couple that I mistakenly placed a couple of tenths wrong. At first I thought I'd be able to pop them out with a hammer and narrow chisel, but gave up on that approach pretty quickly. I ended up drilling through with a stem-diameter bit until the cap came off, then patching the resulting hole (with stem still firmly in place) with anchoring cement. Once those things are set, they're set for good.

That is good to know, I have just recently started using them, already passed the sweeper test that was strong enough to remove some of the chip seal that had been there for awhile. My old way of a MAG nail with aluminum washer probably would of disappeared while I was still completing GPS observations on the project.

FYI, I bought the magnets Bernsten sells and have dropped one in the bottom of the hole before tapping the plug in, they really light up the locator, strong signal turned all the way down and they would be a couple inches subsurface.

SHG

Jim Frame, post: 424164, member: 10 wrote: It takes a lot more than reverse gravity to get those out. I had to reset a couple that I mistakenly placed a couple of tenths wrong. At first I thought I'd be able to pop them out with a hammer and narrow chisel, but gave up on that approach pretty quickly. I ended up drilling through with a stem-diameter bit until the cap came off, then patching the resulting hole (with stem still firmly in place) with anchoring cement. Once those things are set, they're set for good.

[USER=10]@Jim Frame[/USER] I am interested to know if you used any epoxy on the markers you had so much trouble removing, or if the set strength was 100% due to the insert plug and fit.

BushAxe, post: 437680, member: 11897 wrote: I am interested to know if you used any epoxy on the markers

Nope, just the plastic plug. Wham, bam and you're off to the next one.

Jim Frame, post: 437685, member: 10 wrote: Nope, just the plastic plug. Wham, bam and you're off to the next one.

thanks Jim!

Go old school: molten sulphur.
Cast iron ladle, propane torch.
Heat pour and done.

Larry Scott, post: 437743, member: 8766 wrote: Go old school: molten sulphur.
Cast iron ladle, propane torch.
Heat pour and done.

Had to look that one up. Clinical description:

A pale yellow crystalline solid with a faint odour of rotten eggs. Insoluble in water. A fire and explosion risk above 450?ø F. Transported as a yellow to red liquid. Handled at elevated temperature (typically 290?øF) to prevent solidification and makes transfers easier. Hot enough that plastic or rubber may melt or lose strength. Causes thermal burns to skin on contact. Cools rapidly and solidifies if released. Equipment designed to protect against ordinary chemical exposure is ineffective against the thermal hazard. Exercise caution walking on the surface of a spill to avoid breakthrough into pockets of molten sulphur below the crust. Do not attempt to remove sulphur impregnated clothing because of the danger of tearing flesh if a burn has resulted. May be irritating to skin, eyes and mucous membranes. Used in sulphuric acid production, petroleum refining, and pulp and paper manufacturing.

And then someone wrote:

You can anchor steel/iron bolts in rock with sulfur.

Caution is of course advised when using this method. Sulfur is poisonous and molten sulfur is hot.