> .... What prevents a person from just whiting out the note? ...
Nothing, of course. But if you can show that you always include such a note on all your documents and then one shows up without the note it would be evidence that something was up.
If a PE forges your seal in Georgia, you have my condolences
I was told that the Georgia PE/LS board has several questions about drainage on the LS
examinations. However, many of the county engineering departments will not accept
drainage design on subdivision projects completed by land surveyors.
FWIW, I log my signature. Everything that I've signed has my rubber stamp or an impression seal, my signature, date and a log number. I record the title of the survey plat in my log book along with the log number and other pertinent information. I have a variety of colored ink pads for the stamp and several different color ink pens. The same pen I use to sign is the pen I fill out the log book with. I realize that I am not necessarily going to stop someone from using my professional identity, but I like to think I will be able to show the facts if something ever does hit the fan. For what it's worth, I signed my 696th instrument on Sept. 6th.
If a PE forges your seal in Georgia, you have my condolences
That is what goes on in Tennessee. Our licensing law includes drainage, but many counties and cities do not accept any drainage designed by surveyors.
Our licensing exam includes several drainage questions, at least it did when I took the exam in fall 2000.
I do not practice any drainage design. I am just not comfortable doing it.
:good:
If a PE forges your seal in Georgia, you have my condolences
> ... After 6 years and $5,000 paid to a Georgia attorney my Georgia license was finally reinstated....
Shocking story. Guilty until proven innocent. Can you not sue the PE to recover your costs, plus, plus?
If a PE forges your seal in Georgia, you have my condolences
Norman,
I should provide an explanation re my license.
However, to explain this licensing snafu takes some doing. Bear with me. I'm afraid it's not what you likely may be thinking.
Licensed in Alabama, Florida and Georgia since the early 70's, license renewal notices from all 3 Boards had previously always arrived in the mail. (prior to the internet this was SOP) Alabama, renews every year, Florida and Georgia every 2 years. To this date (2013) neither Alabama nor Florida has ever failed to notify me regarding license renewals, and they still do it by mail. Over the years my practice has been almost entirely in Florida. Regarding Alabama and Georgia, there had been a couple times where for one reason or another I renewed a few days after the expiration date. When this happened I was always notified re the license having expired etc. You are informed by the Board when you fail to renew.
The 3 Boards had always mailed out renewal notices on a set schedule (I believe as mandated by law), and until I filed a complaint against this PE even the Georgia Board, for all of the previous nearly 20 years, had never failed to send a renewal notice!
Prior to mandatory continuing education some folks hardly ever gave their license a second thought other than to write out a check every year or every other year (depending on whether your state issued a one year or a two year license). With mandatory continuing education I now have a constant awareness of license renewal dates so I can be sure I have all the necessary education credits. During the era of mandatory continuing education you can't let the renewal date slip up on you without having already obtained the required credits, or else you will not be allowed to renew. Also, as I was living and working solely in Florida, the only wallet card I carried was Florida's. I put wallet cards and all other licensing material from Alabama and Georgia into a file folder somewhere, and forgot about 'em. Georgia licenses, as well as Florida's, are valid for 2 years. A current Georgia license expires December 31, 2014, and a current Florida license expires February 28, 2015, but 20 or 30 years ago they likely expired the same date. Anyway, my complaint against the PE was filed in the summer of the1st year of a 2 year licensing cycle. Also, it wasn't like I was not receiving correspondence from the Georgia Board. Actually, there was plenty of that going on due to the ongoing case. So, they knew me, and they had my mailing address.
At the end of the following year I received my renewal notice from Florida, but without giving it a much thought simply filled out the forms, wrote out a check, put it in the provided envelope and mailed it to Tallahassee. Unaware in that I never caught on that Georgia was messing with me, and for whatever reason had failed to issue my renewal notice. Consequently, my Georgia license expired on the last day of that year. But, I did not realize it, nor did the State of Georgia send anything informing me my license had expired. Nothing. No notice. No mention of what needed to be done to renew. Nothing. (I never researched to make sure, but my attorney told me the issuing of license renewals are regulated by law.) However, my correspondence with the Board re the complaint remained active and ongoing, and somewhere during the new license period (a period during which my license had lapsed and I had not yet become aware of it) the case was concluded. I remained totally in the dark regarding my Georgia license until 2 years later when I received my next renewal notice from Florida. When I opened the letter from Tallahassee a sickening feeling began to well up in me, as I began to think about when was the last time I had renewed in Georgia(?). That was when I went to the folder where I stored all my license stuff, and retrieved my latest Georgia wallet card. My sick feeling was confirmed. My Georgia license had been expired for 2 years. When I contacted the Board I was told I would need to file a new application, provide transcripts, provide letters of recommendation, and take the Georgia exam. I dreaded all the hassle, so I put it off for a few years. Then came the day I really needed the Georgia license. I was put in touch with a 'connected' Georgia attorney, and after explaining all the above, he assured me he could get my license reinstated without any hassle. However, it would cost $5,000 to make it happen. At this point, compared to my other option, $5,000 seemed like a deal. So, 6 years and $5,000 later, my shiny new license arrived in the mail (original license number). Also, once again the State of Georgia has resumed notifying me re license renewal. For the record: yes, had I been diligent enough I could have discovered what Georgia failed to do. Certainly, it wouldn't have been that hard. I get that.
Yesterday for the third time in 24 years I happened on a drawing of mine that had been added to without my knowledge. This time it was a recorded boundary survey with a leased area added that still had my title block, stamp and signature. Last time was a title survey with contour lines added. Previous was a topographic survey with an easement added. I get the feeling this has happened many times I don??t know about.?ÿ
How common is this? What can be done? Each time I have read the riot act to the perpetrator but I think I??m just making enemies.?ÿ
@jcrume Cryptographic digital signatures would be good if everybody used them. But if people are accustomed to use digital files that lack cryptographic digital signatures, they won't think to object when a file from an unfamiliar surveyor that lacks such a signature shows up on their desk.
Another issue is that when deeds are recorded, the recording office may require they be put on paper, or converted to some format that doesn't support cryptographic digital signatures. In which case the security is lost.
I haven't had it happen to me yet, but when it comes to blatant fraud I would not spend any time speaking with the perpetrator.?ÿ I'd report it to the board in a signed and maybe even notorized statement sent via certified mail.?ÿ I would also contact my E & O insurer.?ÿ I'm cheaper than I'm vengeful, so I probably wouldn't sue the crook.
@ashton?ÿ
That won't help though, when after a plan is printed, a builder or homeowner draws an addition, then copies it so it looks like something that's always been part of the plan
@jph Exactly, once the plan is printed all the security benefits of a digital signature are gone.
Wow.?ÿ This is a revival of a thread started over nine years ago on a VERY important subject.?ÿ This place rocks!
@ashton?ÿ
That won't help though, when after a plan is printed, a builder or homeowner draws an addition, then copies it so it looks like something that's always been part of the plan
?ÿ
Which behooves the producer of the original to maintain a sealed (stamped) dated copy and the reception number etc on it to confirm it's prominence.
encumber the system to provide the security, the individual shouldn't have to make such efforts to maintain the validity but still it seems to have to be addressed....
we need better support for the cause for sure.
?ÿ
behooves the producer of the original to maintain a sealed (stamped) dated copy
Or record it with the county office.
