ALTA - Wetlands

> What's a good response to this request from an attorney?
>
> "Please add note that no wetlands exists on site"

Dear Mr Law Guy:

Off the top of my head, we're looking at $XXXX to engage an environmental consultant to delineate any wetlands on the site and for us locate them and add them to the survey. The time frame would be approximately XX days.

Let me know if this works for you and I'll get you a formal proposal later today.

Best Regards

The Survey Guy

We are not qualified to determine wetlands or their boundaries, we can only report the findings of other qualified professionals.

ALTA Table A Item 19 states "Location Of Wetland Areas as delineated by the appropriate authorities"- I would request the report from the consultant hired to review the site and who made the determination there were no wetlands on site before I placed that statement on the survey. I would also add "No wetlands exist on site per report entitled xxxxx by xxxxx dated xxxxxxx.

Was Table A Item 19 included in the contract? If so, I would request the report. If not, I would decline to add the note. As a Surveyor, it is outside my area of expertise to delineate wetlands or determine if the correct site conditions exist for wetland areas.

Just my $0.02

Chuck

Which is why we can't say wetlands exist or do not exist on-site.

I usually say something like..'According to town data wetlands are not present on this site'

:good:

I'll put my $0.02 with Chuck's for a total of $0.04.

I agree with Chuck. No way would I add that note without verification from a wetland delineator's letter.

> We are not qualified to determine wetlands or their boundaries, we can only report the findings of other qualified professionals.

Why is it that very few surveyors have made any effort to become certified to designate wetlands? It would seem to me that, especially in light of the new ALTA standards, there would be an increased focus on that type of work. Wouldn't the client prefer to hire a surveyor with wetlands certification over a surveyor who "isn't qualified to determine wetlands?"

JBS

I usually put a note like this.

4) THIS SURVEY DID NOT INVESTIGATE THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTANCE OF ANY WETLANDS, HAZARDOUS WASTE OR ANY OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL FEATURES THAT MAY AFFECT SAID PROPERTY AS SHOWN HEREON.

In the event that a study was done I would say something like this.

Wetlands shown hereon were delineated by _______ on xx/xx/xx and field located by (surveyor name) on xx/xx/xx. (surveyors name) is not a party in the determination of wetlands as shown. This information is shown for graphical purposes. Contact (wetlands guy) for any additional information regarding wetlands or any other environmental feature.

Or...if you have a corps letter then revised to show project number, date of certification etc. Always give credit to where credit is due.

Yes, another task surveyors used to perform but no longer do because the determination has become more complicated. Why give it up to others instead of learning about it?

We are trying to address this in our degree program. As with anything, there are many differing levels of expertise. Some situations may call for a certified Professional Wetlands Scientist. But that shouldn't be needed for most situations. My initial research turned up two States with a State certification process, Minnesota and New Hampshire. It appears that a 4 semester hour course in wetland delineation and couple general science courses such as biology is all they are looking for. Other related tasks that would be supported by this type of curriculum are the stormwater and erosion control plans. The trend is to require a certified inspector to visit each site once a week as well as certification for the PE,LS or other professional in charge. This is a huge area of revenue that surveyors better address.

I wonder how many firms would be interested in hiring a surveying graduate who had the ability to be certified in wetland and stormwater/erosion control. Acutually, currently they would only be able to get certification in State wetland id, and erosion control inspection. Higher levels require more education and/or experience.

Any way to do a poll on this question on the board Wendell?

John:

From my researcch into the requirements, certification to provide wetlands determination from the Society of Wetland Scientists, one would need:

A BS or BA with a minimum of 15 semester hours in biological sciences, 15 semester hours in physical sciences, 6 semester hours in quantitative sciences and 15 semester hours in specialized wetlands science.

5 years of full-time wetlands science experience.

I qualify under the first three categories of education but fail in the final category. I do not meet the requirement for 5 years of full time wetlands science experience.

The process of a Professional Land Surveyor getting certified as a Professwional Wetlands Scientist would be analagous to a Professional Wetlands Scientist getting licensed as a Professional Land Surveyor.

It just wasn't in the cards for me.

On the other hand, I have a list of PWSs whom I can call and engage as a subcontractor.

BTW - I'm not qualified as a Registerred Forester or a Professional Arborist or Biologist, either. I can easily hire subconaultants to perform that work. I simply educate my clients as to the requirements and the certifications and offer to engage the subconsultant on their behalf. No problem.

Wetlands

Add Virginia to your list.

The Corps tried to start a Wetland Delineator Certification Program in 1992 and it was run as a pilot program in three districts (Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Seattle) from 1993-1994. They abandoned the program because they couldn't get funding for the increased workload on their staff.

The Corps published proposed rules for the Wetland Delineator Certification Program in the Federal Register in March of 1995, but no further action has been taken.

I took a 48 hour class (16 hours each of wetlands plant identification, hydric soil recognition, and delineation using the corps manual) back in 2002 that met the proposed Corps guidelines in the event they ever decide to implement the program.

> From my research into the requirements, certification to provide wetlands determination from the Society of Wetland Scientists, one would need:
>
> A BS or BA with a minimum of 15 semester hours in biological sciences, 15 semester hours in physical sciences, 6 semester hours in quantitative sciences and 15 semester hours in specialized wetlands science.
>
> 5 years of full-time wetlands science experience.
>
I don't believe that you have to be a "Professional Wetlands Scientist" in order to perform wetlands delineations. I'm sure that would be a nice degree to hold, but not required under the Federal Wetland Delineation Program, which I believe is around somewhere around a 40-hour course with some additional field instruction. I could be wrong, but I don't think wetland certifications can only be made by a "Professional Wetlands Scientists."

JBS

I can answer that one JB:

We actually considered doing that here in our office. Seemed like a great fit. We even have a project manager with an environmental biology degree. However, it was pointed out that once we became announced "experts" in recognizing wetlands, we could be exposed for failure to identify them on all of our surveys, even if it was not part of our agreed scope. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s better to appear ignorant on a subject matter than to announce an unprofitable proficiency.

In short, we felt it would do more harm than good.

> We actually considered doing that here in our office. Seemed like a great fit. We even have a project manager with an environmental biology degree. However, it was pointed out that once we became announced "experts" in recognizing wetlands, we could be exposed for failure to identify them on all of our surveys, even if it was not part of our agreed scope. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s better to appear ignorant on a subject matter than to announce an unprofitable proficiency.
>
> In short, we felt it would do more harm than good.

I'll call BS on that one, Gene. There's no way that you could be held responsible for providing a service which was not 1) contracted for, or 2) paid for. A scope of work in a contract is specifically for the purpose of defining the scope of work. It doesn't have to provide for anything that is not required. If the landowner's needs require it, then include it in the scope of work and charge an appropriate fee for it. Wetlands delineations aren't cheep, nor are they "unprofitable."

The same argument could be made for Flood Zone Certificates. Would you have to provide one for every survey? What about zoning compliance determinations? Are those provided on every survey? What about topography? You provide them on some property surveys, but not all of them. Sorry, the argument doesn't hold water.

Appearing ignorant on a subject is fine, as long as it's a conscious decision. It just doesn't make much sense for a surveyor to walk away from these types of opportunities, then complain about not having any work to do.

JBS

You need to ask the attorney to verify if he is asking about corps of engineers "Delineated Wetlands" or simply the existence of wet areas on the tract. Even you if have areas that would be considered wetlands they maybe not jurisdictional wetlands but you will need help in determining that.

It is just like certifying to the existence of an easement, would you put on the survey that no easement either recorded or unrecorded, prescriptive, etc exist except as shown?

You can search the national database for "Delineated Wetlands" and make a note to the affect that you did or did not located any record of wetlands based on this search.

If he wants to know if any areas existed that would be considered wetlands by the corps of engineers offer to obtain a wetlands expert and send the lawyer a proposal for the service.

I don't recall complaining; and yes, it was an informed decision. We do a lot of work with developers and contractors and we might have done well. However; not every company wants to follow the WalMart business plan and try to be the “be all and do all” of the industry.

> I don't recall complaining; and yes, it was an informed decision. We do a lot of work with developers and contractors and we might have done well. However; not every company wants to follow the WalMart business plan and try to be the “be all and do all” of the industry.

I'm sorry, Gene. I didn't mean to imply that "you" were complaining. I was speaking about surveyors in general complaining about the lack of work. And, I certainly agree that surveyors can choose what areas of specialty they will work in. It just seems that the times require that we consider diversifying our business models. My post was meant as an encouragement to those who hadn't considered it as a viable option.

I, personally, made the same "informed decision" not to get my own wetlands certification a number of years ago. I know what surveyor I'll call whenever I have a client who needs a delineation, though (funny thing, that surveyor flies all around the country performing wetlands delineations for WalMart). I made the decision to get my Mediation Certification, instead.

JBS

The Dept. of the Interior has wetland maps.

You could say that according to (reference the DOI map) wetlands do/do not exist on this site.

Wetlands

"....once we became announced "experts" in recognizing wetlands, we could be exposed for failure to identify them on all of our surveys, even if it was not part of our agreed scope..."

That makes NO SENSE whatsoever. By that reckoning, any survey you do is liable for the omission of something.

i.e., a boundary survey that doesn't show utilities, a boundary survey that doesn't show trees, a boundary survey that doesn't show rock outcrops, etc., etc., etc.

An "agreed scope" indicates a contract, with expectations of a certain deliverable.
Barring an MTS requiring additional items, you can't be held liable for something you haven't been contracted to show.