For whatever reason, here in Vermont we have had, maybe, 5 requests for ALTA surveys in the last 10 years. Within the past 2 weeks we have received 6 requests from 3 different clients. Only one of the requests came with a Table A filled out. None of the requests included a Title Commitment.
Am I wrong in stating to them that I can not even give them an estimate without that information?
I am interpreting this to say that it is required.
4. Records Research - It is recognized that for the performance of an ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey, the surveyor will be provided with appropriate data which can be relied upon in the preparation of the survey. The request for an ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey shall set forth the current record description of the property to be surveyed or, in the case of an original survey, the current record description of the parent parcel that contains the property to be surveyed. Complete copies of the most recent title commitment, the current record description of the property to be surveyed (or, in the case of an original survey, the parent parcel), the current record descriptions of adjoiners, any record easements benefiting the property, the record easements or servitudes and covenants burdening the property (all hereinafter referred to collectively as "Record Documents"), documents of record referred to in the Record Documents, documents necessary to ascertain, if possible, the junior/senior relationship pursuant to Section 6.B.vii. below, and any other documents containing desired appropriate information affecting the property being surveyed, and to which the ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey shall make reference, shall be provided to the surveyor for use in conducting the survey. .
No, you are not wrong.
I would not give an estimate for an ALTA without having a copy of the title report in hand. I also make it a practice to specify the report number and date on the proposal noting that changes in the report may increase the price.
As for the Table A, if the client does not specify the items (which happens a lot) I provide them with a copy of the table. I then work with them letting them know what each item entails and a rough idea of the cost associated with each. A little education goes a long way.
Hope this helps.
IF they don't specify, ask the question, Who is the lender and what are their requirements if any? Is it going to involve HUD? other than that I will prepare an estimate for a minimum standards ALTA with no optional Table A requirements. If that changes at a latter date and Table A items are needed I prepare a new contract to include those new SCOPE items and their associated costs on the updated survey. Of course we typically collect enough information to add the Table A items from the initial field work.
Title report is typically a must have.
The vast majority of my work is in a 68.3 square mile area so I pretty much know what I'm looking at without a title report in hand. I'd also say the 95% of the ALTA surveys I perform have the same Table A items checked, so they're in my standard proposal.
But I'm probably the exception rather than the rule
DC Map
James: thanks for the DC neighborhoods map. My daughter is moving back to the US in July and will be moving to Columbia Heights area. She came home in April and we went and looked around for apartments, but it is difficult to know exactly where all the different neighborhoods are. Same here in Pittsburgh
QUESTION #5: Are Title Companies required to provide deeds to the Surveyor as
indicated in Section 4 – Records Research?
The American Land Title Association’s position has always been that title research should be provided to the Surveyor if needed. Notwithstanding that, here are a few things that will help clarify this requirement.
• The standards are actually a contract between the Surveyor and Client. Although the Standard anticipates that title research would and should be provided by the Title Company, these Standards cannot actually force that, unless the Title Company is the Client.
• The drafters do not expect a significant change in what Surveyors will ask from Title Companies; in fact, many states require Surveyors to do their own research, although some Surveyors will likely try to obtain assistance from the Title Company.
• There is nothing in the Standard indicating that the research must be provided by the Title Company at no cost.
• The Title Company does not need to provide any deeds unless they are specifically
requested. This is because there are many states whose administrative laws dictate that Surveyors must do their own deed research.
Hijack - John
A secret mostly know by planners, surveyors, and cab drivers. 😉
As the city expanded, so did the system of naming streets. In the L'Enfant city, the highest lettered street was W Street (running between Ninth and Fifteenth Streets NW). Unlike numbers, the alphabet is not infinitely expandable. In order to continue to have an alphabetical progression of streets, the alphabet starts over. Only "streets" are subject to the convention. Avenues, roads, drives, and other minor streets do not conform to the alphabetical progression. "Places," on the other hand, usually appear one block north of the correspondingly lettered street and often share the same first letter.
After the first alphabet runs out of letters, street names restart alphabetically with two-syllable names. "Adams Street" follows "W Street." Once the second alphabet is exhausted, the system repeats with words of three syllables. "Webster Street" is followed by the third alphabet's "Allison Street." However, the Fourth Alphabet does not use words of four syllables. Instead, the Fourth Alphabet, only present in the Northwest and largest quadrant, uses the names of plants in increasing alphabetical order. Thus "Aspen" follows "Whittier."
"For whatever reason, here in Vermont we have had, maybe, 5 requests for ALTA surveys in the last 10 years. Within the past 2 weeks we have received 6 requests from 3 different clients. Only one of the requests came with a Table A filled out. None of the requests included a Title Commitment.
Am I wrong in stating to them that I can not even give them an estimate without that information?
No. You can't give an accurate proposal without knowing which Table A items are needed. I was contacted a week ago about providing a proposal to perform ALTA surveys on several (not so) fast food establishments. Of course, they wanted the proposal ASAP. I replied with a copy of the Table A options and asked them to indicate which (if any) items were to be included.
On Friday, I called them and was told I would have a reply that afternoon. Yesterday I emailed them to find out if they had the info, but got no reply. I tried again today and got this message:
We will wait on other companies to give us quotes. I am sorry I was unable to get the required info for you in the time frame you would like.
I then sent them tis message:
I would still like to provide you with quotes. I thought you were wanting them ASAP and was trying to comply.
To which they responded:
Our setup here is that myself and one other lady have to communicate with the owners of the company who both live out of state and in different states. They then have to get with the regions vice president to check on items. This process is currently being carried out, but I have not received a reply yet. I am trying to get this as soon as possible for you. I will let you know just as soon as I do.
To make a long story short, many people who request these surveys don't know what they actually involve. Someone usually just tells them to order an ALTA survey.
> For whatever reason, here in Vermont we have had, maybe, 5 requests for ALTA surveys in the last 10 years. Within the past 2 weeks we have received 6 requests from 3 different clients. Only one of the requests came with a Table A filled out. None of the requests included a Title Commitment.
> Am I wrong in stating to them that I can not even give them an estimate without that information?
>
That is a hardball way to romance a prospective client.
The idea is to get the work...
Talk to them.
fill out a Table A form with what you think they want.
make your assumptions and list them.
do the footwork that makes you comfortable.
make your fee proposal based on the above.
--
try to guess why they hired somebody else.
I did a gazillion ALTAs back in the day. I do not ever remember getting a Table A with a proposal request, we seldom even got a title report up front.
If they do not provide what you needed (even if it is in the ALTA specs for them to provide) get it and charged them for it.
remember:
clearly define a scope, don't do extras without getting paid for it.
a T&M contract will make you wages at best, not a penny more.
a flat fee gives you a possibility of making more than wages.
PS: actually, if you don't get the work Ask them why. you may be surprised