In my opinion.
I really wanted to post a copy of a survey in hand that I have from another surveying company with names blacked out-decided against it at the moment. I am waiting on a return call from the other surveyor.
We were asked to do a typical residential lot survey, 75' x 120', recorded plat, from one of the owners of our company for his daughter. We don't typically pursue title work on small lots.
I happened to go on site on this one. Pulled up- lot had been freshly staked, at least the front corners were. Made some calls, sure enough, already ordered by lender and the lender had survey in hand. Must have been one of those quicki-dicki surveys that Kent talks about....
Nothing was marked, flagged at the rear corners of the lot- a 6' wood privacy fence was partially down each side and along rear of property.
I pull out the golden magic wand at each rear corner and the thing zings.. 1/2" iron rod down 0.1' under dirt and leaves,(hasnt been touched by a surveyor in years) near 4" x4" wood fence post.
Ok- got the copy of the survey and it shows at SW corner on street:
" 1/2" iron rod found at S 85 23 19 W 0.34' " ???
at the SE corner on street:
" 1/2" iron rod found at N 27 29 04 W 0.57' " ???
at NW corner in rear where I recovered the rod shows:
" fence post at corner N 20 44 34 W 0.75' " ???
at NE corner in rear where I recovered the rod shows:
" fence post at corner N 13 23 40 W 0.42' "
The survey plat from the other company shows record data per the subdivision plat as being the boundary.
I have been doing this for a long time- something seems like all kinds of wrong here. Is there a new way of labeling corners that I need to be aware of?
I am just really disappointed.
[sarcasm]The setting of the final corners was left for the client/title co/realtor.
That is now the standard procedure.
Let the client get his box tape, and transit out, and set his own corners off the EXISTING pins! [/sarcasm]
(Please note which font I used!)
🙂
N
> In my opinion.
>
> I really wanted to post a copy of a survey in hand that I have from another surveying company with names blacked out-decided against it at the moment. I am waiting on a return call from the other surveyor.
> We were asked to do a typical residential lot survey, 75' x 120', recorded plat, from one of the owners of our company for his daughter. We don't typically pursue title work on small lots.
> I happened to go on site on this one. Pulled up- lot had been freshly staked, at least the front corners were. Made some calls, sure enough, already ordered by lender and the lender had survey in hand. Must have been one of those quicki-dicki surveys that Kent talks about....
>
> Nothing was marked, flagged at the rear corners of the lot- a 6' wood privacy fence was partially down each side and along rear of property.
>
> I pull out the golden magic wand at each rear corner and the thing zings.. 1/2" iron rod down 0.1' under dirt and leaves,(hasnt been touched by a surveyor in years) near 4" x4" wood fence post.
>
> Ok- got the copy of the survey and it shows at SW corner on street:
> " 1/2" iron rod found at S 85 23 19 W 0.34' " ???
>
> at the SE corner on street:
> " 1/2" iron rod found at N 27 29 04 W 0.57' " ???
>
> at NW corner in rear where I recovered the rod shows:
> " fence post at corner N 20 44 34 W 0.75' " ???
>
> at NE corner in rear where I recovered the rod shows:
> " fence post at corner N 13 23 40 W 0.42' "
>
> The survey plat from the other company shows record data per the subdivision plat as being the boundary.
> I have been doing this for a long time- something seems like all kinds of wrong here. Is there a new way of labeling corners that I need to be aware of?
> I am just really disappointed.
Does Texas have what's called Mortgage Inspection "Surveys"? I know some state have them where you don't have to recover or set monumentation. Just show what's on the lot based on calculated dimensions from the plat. They are not allowed in Florida. You have to either find or set all boundary monumentation.
The Bow Tie Surveyor
Obviously, measuring technicians at work!
those type of surveys, a Mortgage Loan Inspection, originally called a Category 4, by TSPS, have been "deleted" from the types of surveys in 1981.
This survey was a "real" survey.
ugh!! worst thing to see. it's basically a way for cheapo outfits to wiggle out of actually accepting or rejecting what is found in the field. If they show record vs. measured, they have to spend time explaining the real world to their clients. This way, they simply show PLAT bearings and distances all around. Nobody but a real surveyor would look at it and say WTF, since the layperson doesn't understand any of it.
AND,... to make it worse, they probably just make up the bearings and distances off. I bet there is either NO or a very vague bearing basis reference...
exactly Andy! - I think I am obligated to send this to the Board- what I didnt post was that this is typical of this company. My wife is an escrow officer- I have seen several of this surveys come thru her office-same format- they need to be turned in...
Your language wasn't strong enough.
This surveyor has wussed out of his professional responsibilities. He needs to either accept the monuments he finds in the field or set new ones. If I was on the Texas board, I would seriously recommend suspending his license for a few months until he figured out how to survey. It is a severe disservice to the public to call for imaginary corners.
If you don't turn him in, I'm going to take a screen shot of this thread and send it to the Texas board. As a professional, you are obligated to report behavior such as this. We're never going to elevate the profession unless we cut out nonsense such as this. What he did is against the law, and needs to be dealt with.
Speaking as the FIRST person in the State of Arkansas to turn somebody in...
I first went to them, (Several times) and got no satisfaction.
I then got about 80 plats by the offending surveyor.
I then made notes about each one, that had major problems, to document the issues.
I then made an affidavit, and notarized it.
And then sent it in.
It finally took 2 MORE complaints to get rid of him.
My point is, don't think that somebody won't cut him some slack. Prepare for a follow up. Make a BACKUP of EVERYTHING you send in.
Be prepared to go at it for several rounds.
We finally got rid of him.
He really needed to do something else.
Nate
Any survey done in Texas must be a nothing less than a full fledged bonifide survey.
The only exception is a preliminary survey that is so marked with the wording "Preliminary survey, this information is not to be recorded"
I share RAGOODWIN's concerns. I put up with these rinkydinky drive by attempts on a regular basis.
Their skill levels are not only being wasted on the small lots, it's being expressed in the larger surveys also.
Recently I noticed a survey of several hundred acres where the R/W monuments were ignored and a 40ft x 1,800ft strip of a major highway in this area is being included with the surveyed tract.
The number of small lots necessary to finish in a days time and the distance away from the office many of these projects are as compared to the lowballing price relates to them spending insufficient amounts of time to accomplish an actual survey.
There is a lack of research that relates to this also. In every case I've ran across, the information that was lacking of what was found on the ground was an easy find when actually visiting the proper agency holding the record data.
0.02
Maybe not
OK - go ahead and take your shots at me, but ...
With lots that are 75 X 120 that means you are probably subject to Zoning Regulations & Subdivision Regulations related to things like minimum lot width, minimum area, etc.
Perhaps they found subdivision control that lets them say with confidence that the pins are not where they are supposed to be. Now a couple of them are far enough off that I would have set corrected pins and that is perhaps a fault. But saying the pins are not where they are supposed to be is OK.
If they had tried to say the pins were good, change lot dimensions, etc., the repercussions to this lot and adjacent lots could be serious.
Maybe not
dave, I understand what you are saying. I of course have the advantage of looking at the survey- there is no reason not to accept the found rods at the front. Like i posted previously, this is this companys MO- contract crew, get in, get out, and on to the next one..
If you dont accept something, you are required to set your calculated position.
Maybe not
also, i have never heard of a deal not closing because of a slight setback issue on an existing house- they take exception to it around here.
Maybe not
Dave also was thinking about asking what evidence was found to have had confidence in those calls. There may be strong evidence for showing those monuments not being at their expected location, now if there were new monuments set, ( pin cushion!!!!).
jud
Maybe not
based on the fact that the surveyor did not recover the iron rods in the rear, how could he even consider not accepting the front ones with out all the facts?
Maybe not
> Perhaps they found subdivision control that lets them say with confidence that the pins are not where they are supposed to be. Now a couple of them are far enough off that I would have set corrected pins and that is perhaps a fault. But saying the pins are not where they are supposed to be is OK.
>
The zoning, etc. issues have been addressed on this board many times, essentially those things are mute points unless a conveyance has been made that make the lot non-conforming. If the lot was conforming when it was approved, it is still conforming even if the exact distances are not what was reported on the plat.
During a resurvey/retracement, the surveyor has no authority to correct/move the boundary corners to where they were "supposed to be". Our duty is to find the boundary location. If those markers are original (or representative thereof), and in their undisturbed accepted position they should control.
That said, before the surveyor is turned into the board, he should be contacted and be given the chance to present all the evidence he found supporting his conclusions. After all, a resurvey is an evidentiary problem, not solely a measuring/calculating exercise.
Maybe not
in my opinion, well said Brian- as I noted, I have called the surveyor and waiting for his return call.
> those type of surveys, a Mortgage Loan Inspection, originally called a Category 4, by TSPS, have been "deleted" from the types of surveys in 1981.
> This survey was a "real" survey.
If that was a Category 4 survey, I would hate to see what a Category 5 survey looked like.:excruciating:
The Bow Tie Surveyor
"Obviously, measuring technicians at work!'
:good: INDEED!!
I see so much of this it is beginning to make me sick. The people who won't file complaints with their State Boards are almost as bad - they certainly can't complain about others if they won't make a stand to stop them. I am considering filing a complaint with my State Board against themselves (the State Board), for licensing individuals who have no idea what surveying is. They are supposed to be licensing us to protect the public and when they give these yahoo technicians licenses they are violating their own purpose for being as well as endangering the public! You following me?
