I'm surveying a tract of about 60 acres. The deed for this tract goes back to the early 1900's. There might be an issue with the adjoiner. The adjoining property has been passed down several times and I don't know enough about the family history to know when someone was actually conveyed a deed with a description in it. I called the adjoiner and they refuse to help me. They won't give me a deed, a date of transfer, a name or anything else, except to say that it has been in the family since before the Civil War.
This is the issue. As a professional, how obligated am I to tract this deed down?
If it is part and parcel to any boundary decision that you might make then it's imperative to track it down.
I just hate family stuff sometimes. They do deeds to each other but never file them in the courthouse. Tough stuff but it's got to be ferreted out in the course of our work.
Good luck.
around here you'd be about 100% obligated. There is not a deed for the abutting property on record at the Registry?
Around here you are 100 percent responsible. Don't you have Registries in Tenn? Aren't there recording laws? I don't understand the problem?
send a certified letter requesting copies. put it in your records for court later. survey the best you can with the available records. publish your survey and rest easy you have done all you can.
Per your statement "As a professional..."
Before contacting neighbor: 100% obligated
After learning neighbor won't cooperate: 110% obligated
I can't imagine any boundary survey where I would not research the adjoiner deeds. How would one ever discover if there were gaps or overlaps if they didn't?
What would a "reasonable surveyor" do? Do you look for a corner, and if you find a marker, say "I found it" and quit looking? Or if you don't see it within 5 minutes, say "It isn't here"? You do the best you can. I like the idea of sending a certified letter......but can't you research the courthouse too? You know the owner, can't you trace the grantor/grantee books? You should show due diligence to get the deed information. You can't for someone to give something to you, but maybe you can convince them it is in their best interest.
re: >"how obligated am I to tract this deed down"?
Ha ha ha....I like that. I know it was a simple typo, but if you think about it, that's what we do....tract deeds down (onto the ground).
I'd start with the indexes using last names. 😛
Seriously though, look at it's adoiners as well and you may find where they call the landowner's name out as an adjoiner.
The document is recorded somewhere, you just have to find it. Sounds like a full day in the courtn house to me.
I know there are differences in procedures from State to State, but in New England extensive research, including the abutter's deeds, is the standard of care.
It could be that he has alloidal title, and does not want to mess it up. Tell him that your intrest is in the DESCRIPTION, not the actual family details. Share your world, and needs and see if he comes along. IF not, that's another story.
Look alloidal (sp) title.
N
Times like these is when having a good working relationship with a local Title Co. is invaluable.
One way I have used to track down a deed is the old tax records. You can find each year a tract changed name of owner and then know where to look in the deed records.
James
As stated above you are 110% obligated to track this deed down.
Whether you are successful or not is another story.
But there must be a "good faith" effort on your part, which should included documented time spent at the registry, certainly a registered letter to the adjoiner and an attempt at in-person contact.
A reasonable standard of care requires that you do what any other reasonable surveyor would do to locate the deed.....perhaps one personal measure of this might be to find out what would the surveyor you most admire do?
So I'm just supposed to magically derive who all the current owner's ancestors are?
Yes, smart alleck, we do have registeries in Tennessee. However, I have yet to see a deed index that would do you any good if you didn't know the buyer's or seller's name.
sounds like tommy believes there is an unrecorded transfer(s) being held by this family. tommy is licensed and been practicing for quite a while - i'm sure he isn't looking for advice on how to navigate the courthouse.
This could be an instance of having to survey out the entire adjoiner's parcel(s), just to figure out what is left, before you actually even get to your own client's parcel.
"There might be an issue with the adjoiner." ? Yes There Is!
"The deed for this tract goes back to the early 1900's."
Take your deed back to the first conveyance, consider the calls for adjoiners. Search their ancient deeds and bring that parcel forward as far as you can.
It is necessary for you to meet with the adjoiner and explain why it is that you need that information to do a proper survey for their neighbor. Without that information you cannot do your job as a professional surveyor. If they don't assist you then you do the search yourself. They may in fact not have a deed or a clue. Also request that they walk their perimeter with you, so that you will not unknowingly tresspass. Explain that you have the right to tresspass for survey purposes and ask if they would be more comfortable with the sheriff accompanying you.
Time to become familiar with the prothonotary's office, for will research. I can easily imagine your research taking a week.
"This is the issue. As a professional, how obligated am I to tract this deed down?"
Very!
Suggestions for assistance, utility easements on the adjoiner might reference landowners and or deeds. Around here easement documents and maps would be in the Miscellaneous Books.
Mortgages would reference deeds.
Tax records would reference landowners. I have traced tax records back for 60 years to get a history of corporate names (5 found) in order to find the only deed to the the original corporation.
Almost every parcel of land fronts a road. Road return books and/or maps will usually list adjoiners. Many old road returns were mapped as "Make Work" projects during the Great Depression.
Land may also be adjacent to or crossed by railroads, trolley lines or drainage ways. Verify that no such contacts exists before you even think you are done.
I have also used the state archives to get original land patents. For some parcels 250 years ago was the first and last time a survey was done (hopefuly a more or less complete survey). Many old patents were mapped as "Make Work" projects during the Great Depression.
BTW, exactly what is your surveying background?
Paul in PA
It Is Sometimes Necessary To Survey 100 Acres To Find The 5
It is what has to be done by a professional.
Paul in PA
They not only have no obligation to cooperate, they may have no right to object.
Check your tax lister, owner normally pays taxes so you have the name to start the search in your grantor/grantee index. Register of deeds employees will help you.
What are your state's laws regarding repose or limitation?
Where is the existing physical evidence of occupation and control? How long has that evidence been in place and unchallenged by the affected owners?
You haven't even started your work, why do you need help now?
Richard Schaut
> I'm surveying a tract of about 60 acres. The deed for this tract goes back to the early 1900's. There might be an issue with the adjoiner. The adjoining property has been passed down several times and I don't know enough about the family history to know when someone was actually conveyed a deed with a description in it. I called the adjoiner and they refuse to help me. They won't give me a deed, a date of transfer, a name or anything else, except to say that it has been in the family since before the Civil War.
>
> This is the issue. As a professional, how obligated am I to tract this deed down?
Tommy, I think I know what you were trying to say, but didn't actually say it. I think you are implying that when "...has been passed down several times and I don't know enough about the family history to know when someone was actually conveyed a deed with a description in it." that there must be a female or family member (nephew or niece) with a different last name in the mix and the family name trail has gone cold. I can certainly commiserate. If you can't track it back through your parcel to the parent/locus parcel description, you may have to do research on one of their far side adjoiners to track it back... and then, it's still no guarantee. Can you see who wrote the current deed/source of title? Is it a local attorney? Can you speak to them in person and impart to them how beneficial it is to them to help you?
I think you going to have to play diplomat along with investigator in this situation, and I wish you well!!
+1 for the PLSS, the GLO and the sectional indicies!
