Accept the monument?

Are those things railroad timber bolts? We used to see hundreds of them along the tracks on a job where we were doing a bunch a pre-splitting above the track and the railroad installed 6"x6" track protection timber so they could clear the tracks quickly after the blast. They were about a foot long with a spiraled shank.

Anyway- I guess I'd be inclined to place a proper monument at the correct location. Doesn't sound like the state agency had any knowledge of them- What about your client?

was it covered with dirt?

Was it even intended to be a monument?

I've never seen anything like that.

Ditto on the theory that someone knows the origin of that cap; and maybe even some story about how ole' so-and-so set a bunch of those back in 19** . Or a homeowner saying yeah I put that there where I thought the corner was.

Somebody put it there for some purpose. I'd feel a lot better knowing who and why.

It appears to have been covered up. Has there been any reliance on it.

I would do all things reasonable to find a record that explains who set it and when. I would in particular be looking for similat mons at other land corners in the section/region. If I found none, I would say so on my plat. If as well there is no evidence of boundary established with reference thereto, my job is easy. Document the locations of all evidence with reference to My monument.

If anyone in future finds evidence and wants to use the old position, it is avalable to them to do so. I have not destroyed the position, I have maintained it.

The chicken s**t thing to do is leave everything as is, set no mon, and just note "1.5' N of corner". Either that or multiple mons just enhances probability of future strife for some landowner.

I would also inform my client, it is in your best interest to establish your boundary based on my mon. If not fence posts then at least bricks on line. Nothing gives a mon more status than use for it's intended purpose by the private land owner. Until that is done, no harm correcting errors found.

What sort of rod is down below? Is the rod threaded or splined, and is it possible to tell how long it is? Does the cap appear to be integral with the rod, i.e. factory-assembled, or does it seem to have been driven onto the rod after the rod was in place, as would be more typical of a survey cap?

I've never seen a survey cap with notches like that in the edges, and it's hard to think of any survey-related purpose the notches might serve. But if you had a cap like that firmly attached to a threaded rod, lag bolt, soil anchor, etc., the notches could be used to turn the assembly with some kind of pin wrench.

All in all, it looks more like a found object than a monument.

> I've finally painted myself into a corner and have to decide to accept or reject a found W1/16 corner on the south line of a Section 21. The SW Section and S1/4 corners are resurveyed (prorated) BLM brass caps cira75. The 1/16 corner had to have been set after the resurvey and looks like this:
>
> The cap is within 1.5' and normally I would jump right on it. But, since it was set after the time when it became a requirement that a licensed surveyor does this kind of work and a monument needed to be stamped and recorded and none of that happened I just don't know what to do with it.
>

Without any record how do you know it was set after the 1975 proportion survey?

My first inclination would be to accept it. It appears to be a bridge spike which quite a few surveyors used. Remember, the presumption is that it is the corner, you have to have evidence that it was never intended to be the corner and has never been relied upon, which it sounds like you are just assuming based on that so far you cannot prove it to be correct. You need to prove it to be wrong before rejecting it. Placing another monument just because you are in doubt only creats more confusion and potential problems in the future.

> I have no idea who set it. But I strongly doubt it was set by any PLS. The adjoiner is state land and it might be possible that a state agency set it-but they have no record either.

Since when is it a requirement that a monument must be rejected unless a licensed surveyor set it? I've yet to find any support for that erroneous position. The standard is why is was set and how it has been recognized, ie a good faith attempt to place the corner.

Here is me thoughts.
It looks like a RR timber bolt, as stated above.
It might be pure coincidence, as where it is.
Maybe kids drove it there. Having fun, Playing surveyor.

It MIGHT be set by some surveyor.

So, Call all your local surveyors, and ask them.

Check for recorded plats in your county. Call any "Popular" surveyors that "Practice" in your area, ie, lowballer from next county.

IF all these come up negative, then Put into your little report, what you did, and that you chose to reject, as a coincidence. Leave it there, as a quasi witness corner.

And, now nobody can call you negligent.

IF you are on bad/poor/less-than-good terms with any of your local surveyors, well, you can USE this to re establish communication.

In every way, USE this circumstance for good.

Get your job done.

Nate

I have used them in the past, but only on town lots. The shaft is sort of like a woodscrew and about 16-18 inches in length as I recall.

Hells bells, set another one where it is supposed to be, even if it is only a finger nail distance away. You can show your accuracy in measurement that way. 😉

Keith

What a beautiful piece of recovery of a goat stake or sheepherders stake to keep the horse from wandering off at night...No record no monument, no occupation in reliance no monument...Set the 1/16, drive the goat stake below ground, field the recorde and move on...one corner one monument! Any corner set after 1968 would require a corner record, pls identification etc....Understanding the state you work in and it's history helps.

Pablo

Why is there a thought of a goat stake at a corner position?

Why would a farmer tie his goat to a corner in the property anyway?

This premise is totally beyond a rational thought on survey monuments.

At least that is what I think.

Think about it.

Keith

I think that a lot of us have actually found goat stakes near property corners.
It's not uncommon.
You have to be on your toes;-) .

Don

"What a beautiful piece of recovery of a goat stake or sheepherders stake to keep the horse from wandering off at night..."

I failed to see the evidence in the original post, where is the evidence that this is NOT a corner set in good faith? If this "goat stake" means absolutely nothing to nobody (except the ignorant herder who happened to place it 1.5 feet from the perfect mathematical position of a public and survey corner), why not remove it?

"No record no monument"
"Any corner set after 1968 would require a corner record, pls identification etc...."

This "surveyor myth" has been around a while and seems to be growing, I'd love to read the rational and legal basis for this position. Please post the statues and/or case law which established this "rule".

If the corner is rejected what's the rational to drive it down other than jerking it out?

How did you tell if it was a goat stake and within a link of the corner?

> Set the 1/16, drive the goat stake below ground, file the record and move on...

:good:

A 2" aluminum disk that fits into a rod sleeve. What other new innovations will the goat stake industry think of next to decoy surveyors?

I am thinking that the definition of a "goat stake" is any piece of metal sticking out of the ground that is not at the exact measured true point for the corner!

Right?

Keith