I have a long term client that builds custom residential homes. I really couldn't guess a price range of the homes he builds, but the property alone usually runs 150 to 250K. They're really nice places that probably run well over a mil.
This last month he received two separate invoices from me for work performed on two separate properties. With the invoices I had also included a pdf of a proposed structure location for one of the properties so the future homeowner could get things approved by his local HOA.
Through CCs of emails I could see that he forwarded the site plan to his client. The client replied to him asking for the surveyor's bill. Through another CC I could see that my client (the builder) forwarded him my "invoice", but I'm not privy to the actual attachments. BTW, my invoices state an address, legal description of the property and an explanation of the work performed.
Today in the mail I received payment from one of the property owners. The amount of the check was the total for both invoices. I really don't know what agreements these gentlemen have with one another...and I really don't want to pry. My invoices were paid.
It appears to me that my client rolled an invoice over to a property owner for work performed on another property.
My question is: Would you contact either of these gentlemen to see if there was some sort of mix-up?
I would. You need to know who you are working for so you can provide a service for their needs.
Not working for the contractor, then deal with the owner, buyer or whoever. A middle man can bad mouth your services and you have no direct contact to defend yourself or to explain what they are paying for and why.
jud
I would contact the client, but not the property owner.
> I have a long term client that builds custom residential homes. I really couldn't guess a price range of the homes he builds, but the property alone usually runs 150 to 250K. They're really nice places that probably run well over a mil.
>
> This last month he received two separate invoices from me for work performed on two separate properties. With the invoices I had also included a pdf of a proposed structure location for one of the properties so the future homeowner could get things approved by his local HOA.
>
> Through CCs of emails I could see that he forwarded the site plan to his client. The client replied to him asking for the surveyor's bill. Through another CC I could see that my client (the builder) forwarded him my "invoice", but I'm not privy to the actual attachments. BTW, my invoices state an address, legal description of the property and an explanation of the work performed.
>
> Today in the mail I received payment from one of the property owners. The amount of the check was the total for both invoices. I really don't know what agreements these gentlemen have with one another...and I really don't want to pry. My invoices were paid.
>
> It appears to me that my client rolled an invoice over to a property owner for work performed on another property.
>
> My question is: Would you contact either of these gentlemen to see if there was some sort of mix-up?
I'd start by contacting the builder. Ask if he made a clerical error when he forwarded the invoices.
Give him the chance to clear up a potential mistake. I would start to worry if he doesn't seem worried about it...
Deposite the check. Follow up with statement of facts to your client. If it's an issue for him, let him fix it.
First thing I'd do is deposit the check. Say the bookeeper did it, per their job duties. Then I'd call the client, never the homeowner. Get things clarified from what they did. But I would be fully prepared to write a reimbursement check to somebody. But if it is to the guy who paid both bills, I'd wait until your client paid you for the other job, makiing it the contractors problem and not yours.
I've had this exact situation happen several times before. When in fact the guy did double dip. Many builders are not exactly outstanding ethical people, so why should he be the only one to benefit? Not so sure it would be your ethical problem, but your clients issues. You run a business too, and they simply paid you. And if he is double dipping, I'd keep that in my back pocket in terms of reliability as a client.
Is it much different than getting a retainer? The fine line between working for the acutal owner or the contractor does get convulted at times. Maybe this is one of those. I'd still deposit the check and then call the contrator. You know you got paid, let the contractor reimburse the other guy.
Seems clear that the invoices (which included fees for two separate surveys) were mis-interpreted by whoever paid the bill. (Unless he/she/they actually owns both properties, but in different names or entities.)
Just call the person that sent the check and ask. To keep the money while suspecting it is an erroneous payment is, in fact, unethical.
I'd also hold off on deposting the check until the matter is straightened out, lest you look like you are trying to capitalize on a mistake.
(Saying "the book keeper did it" is unethical too.)
Agree sicilian.
> (Saying "the book keeper did it" is unethical too.)
Probably, but there are other factors. I think company size and cash flow has a lot to do with it. I do not know Mr Cash's business model, but I get the impression he is amongst the soloish crowd. As am I. There is no corporate/government umbrella and steady paycheck.
If somebody, anybody, sends me a check I deposit it. To blame the "bookeeper" is somewhat rhetorical. I currently do not have one, as I do all my own bookeeping. If I have to deal with the fallout later, then so be it. That has happened in the past.
Then again how many spins do we hear from people who are late with payments. Are they being ethical and honest? Much of business is not ethical anyways, it is about making money. Also about picking your clients. The fact that the check came from the owner instead of the client is a red flag in the first place IMHO, thus my suspected double dipping.
So if somebody pays you for services rendered, then that is good. If the wrong person pays you.... I think that was the original question. I just never would make it my problem.
E-mail the builder - thus getting a written response.
Simply point out that you have received payment from John Doe for the surveys provided at ADDRESS ONE and ADDRESS TWO. You want to verify that no mistake was made in the billing process and are just checking with him.
I have had similar things occur for a builder that I do work for as well. Just as you are discussing, he builds on lake front lots running 200K+ for the lot and 500K+ for the house.
Strange as it seems to me, there has been more than one occasion when friends own lots in the same or nearby subdivisions. I do the work on both lots and one or the other pays the bill for both through mutual agreement.
> Seems clear that the invoices (which included fees for two separate surveys) were mis-interpreted by whoever paid the bill. (Unless he/she/they actually owns both properties, but in different names or entities.)
>
>
> Just call the person that sent the check and ask. To keep the money while suspecting it is an erroneous payment is, in fact, unethical.
>
>
> I'd also hold off on deposting the check until the matter is straightened out, lest you look like you are trying to capitalize on a mistake.
>
> (Saying "the book keeper did it" is unethical too.)
" Through another CC I could see that my client (the builder) forwarded him my "invoice", but I'm not privy to the actual attachments. BTW, my invoices state an address, legal description of the property and an explanation of the work performed."
Unethical? It sounds like he sent plenty of information in the invoice to tell whoever paid the bills exactly what the invoices were for. He also saw that the client forwarded the invoices to the person who paid the bills.
I would say that the presumption is that the check for the work was for the invoices that totalled the same prices. I think that mr. cash (Hey wait a minute, is it unethical to call himself "paid-in cash" and take a check?) is doing everything right.
I agree with the general consensus that he has every right to deposit a check that is made out to him for invoices he submitted, and that it is a good idea to confirm with the parties that an error hadn't occured. He can always return money if his digging finds that something is amiss.
I would call my client for clarification.
>.I think company size and cash flow has a lot to do with it.
Wrong.
Company size and cash flow have NOTHING to do with ethics....they are business considerations.
Just because something is "expedient" or "convenient" from a business point of view doesn't make it "ethical"
Nor does "rhetorically" LYING about who depostited the check.
Let's not try to fool ourselves here.....one can "do what you have to do", but that doesn't mean it's ethical. This is exactly what is meant by "slippery slope".
I would call the client and bring it to his attention and ask if there has been a mistake. What I would decide next would depend upon his response.
...and yes I would deposit the check even if you later decide to refund someone some of it.
> >.I think company size and cash flow has a lot to do with it.
Ok Mr Cowboy, I follow your logic and am not so sure I disagree. Truely. I just think dealing with corporate world vs small business world are two very different worlds.
Professional ethics in surveying vs business ethics to make money are also two different worlds. As a surveyor it often times requires two different hats, unfortuantely. That just seems to be the reality. At least the world(s) I've lived in for quite some time.
As stated, I'd deposit the check. Then I'd follow up with the client. I'd let him deal with the owner.
It almost seems like more of a contract issue than an ethical issue.
(past the $0.02 mark by now, so I'll just call it an even dollar)
A question of "ethics" (update)
Just talked to my client (the builder)...he was real quick to let me know he had just mailed me a check for the "other" property!
I told him 'thanks!' for the extra payment. He doesn't have a sense of humor....
He hadn't realized he had forwarded both invoices to the property owner. He asked, "Don't your invoices have the site address on them?"...Yes, they do. I guess his client doesn't read invoices very close.
Anyway, I'm getting a hold of the guy that paid for both surveys and I'll either return his original check or send him one for a refund, whichever he prefers.
I'd like to think I didn't deposit his check because I'm an honest guy....simple fact is the banks are closed today. That's why these checks are sitting here on my desk. Otherwise I would have deposited all of them without really looking them over...
guess I'll sleep good 'cause I'm such a pillar of the community.
What was the address?
Have a great weekend! I know I'm going to!
Send the person that sent the check a receipt for the two paid invoices and leave it at that.
When in doubt disclose, disclose, disclose. Some BORs will frown, big time, on a Surveyor being paid by two different entities while on the same job.
A question of "ethics" (update)
Sounds like you could double your rates without any complaint:)