Trimble vs Leica --vision components

This is true and a selling point by Leica. Leica corrects for the parallax, where Trimble does not.

I haven't used an instrument equipped w/ the vision component, our S6 doesn't have it. However, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have taken the camera/laser offset, and consequently the aiming, into account.

The Trimble whitepaper on their vision component (See this PDF, pages 12-13) seems to read as if they did.

I can't see how the screen resolution would be good enough to allow you to point the gun with any kind of accuracy. Think of the times you have had to sight a plumb-bob point, or a nail, or a building corner, or something else - would you be confident doing that by joy-sticking the gun around while peering at the data collector screen? I suppose it would be fine where great accuracy is not required, but I still regularly run into situations where I can't do something with a robot simply because there is nobody behind the gun to point it accurately. Sometimes a shot on the prism pole just is not good enough.

You can zoom in with the software. Even so, it's more for finding the prism, and irregular use, rather than as a primary survey method. I wouldn't get too excited over it. If you were looking at it I'd buy it for it's prism finding and consider the other capabilities a benefit.

That reads as though it does correct once it has a distance. Obviously it needs to shoot a distance first to determine the "correct" crosshair position.

If so it's the same as Leica's

Both Leica and Trimble record orientation parameters for the images taken so that if you have a desire to do some terrestrial photogrammetry you will be able to do so. The implementation of imaging is great with any total station that has it. Imagining opens up more data possibilities and the interface adds allot when doing robotics. All of these benefits come with any brand.

However, Trimble does not correct for this parallax issue with reflectorless measurements. Topcon does not correct for this either with the offset camera. Topcon has a coaxial camera also that is not affected by this relationship.

Yes.. Leica does correct for this matter and has different cross-hairs displayed on the screen so that the user intuitively knows whether parallax has been corrected or not.

One post states basically that it does not matter because you would "probably" be close enough" for reflectorless. I argue that it does matter because you can observe where the measurement will be taken at close ranges and with zooming capabilities. Users will use the cross-hair on the screen to point to an object or position that does matter and measure with reflectorless. Users will measure critical locations with this functionality and if they are using Trimble they need to be aware that they are not measuring to the correct location shown on the screen.

I am not trying to bash a brand of instrument. I am just not sure why Trimble does not explain this issue to their users or put it in the white paper that was posted in a previous post.

gshrock,

Again, I am not brand-bashing. Just trying to make other surveyors aware of issues.

Sorry.. but Trimble does not correct the cross-hair on the screen when taking reflective measurements. You will be shooting the wrong spot. You must have misunderstood what was being discussed.

Again, I am not brand bashing. If you can explain how this relationship can be corrected without first measuring a distance to the targeted surface... I would like to know it.

With this relationship you need to first measure a distance to the surface so that the displayed cross-hair can be corrected on the screen. This situation is the real-time operation in the field that is being explained.

I'd like to thank you all for sharing your experience and feedback. The next move is to register for the Hexagon Summit and Grill them.

Ralph

gschrock,

The key here is the tracking mode. If the reflectorless EDM is in tracking mode... then this relationship could be corrected in real-time. To qualify my argument is that the EDM is not in tracking mode. My concern (and no brand bashing intended) is users rarely have the EDM in tracking mode or need to know that they need to have this set to use the crosshairs on the screen.

Probably time to put this thread to bed before it gets to brand bashing level.

> gschrock,
>
> The key here is the tracking mode. If the reflectorless EDM is in tracking mode... then this relationship could be corrected in real-time. To qualify my argument is that the EDM is not in tracking mode. My concern (and no brand bashing intended) is users rarely have the EDM in tracking mode or need to know that they need to have this set to use the crosshairs on the screen.
>
> Probably time to put this thread to bed before it gets to brand bashing level.

Tracking mode in reflector-less?

Based on the quote from the white paper that Gavin posted, my guess is that the instrument most likely switches over into tracking mode as soon as you switch over to video view. Since the distance is essential to the correct display of the crosshairs, I doubt the manufacturer would let it up to the user to remember to make the distance mode switch.

QUICK EDIT: Gavin's quote is actually from a product engineer, but IIRC that is nearly verbatim with the language in the Vision documentation.

LAST EDIT (I swear...): If you look at the image in Christof's post in [msg=186840]this thread,[/msg]you can see that the EDM is in tracking mode during video view, as indicated by the "T" to the right of the instrument/laser icon at the top right.

Here's Christoff's photo:

I'm going to have to sit down and digest this white paper on Trimblevision.
It seems to me that this would eat up a hell of a lot of battery.

Ralph

Ha! Good catch, totally missed that.

Regardless of target type that is selected, I would have to guess (yes, just a guess) that Tracking mode would get turned on by default. If it NEEDS the distance, than it probably switches to start measuring right away. I wonder if the S6 or TSC/Access manual mentions anything about it...

I agree about the battery issue, I would be nervous about that too.

Ralph - a little more food for thought, copied/pasted from the Access manual:

"The camera is not coaxial with the telescope. Therefore:

-The General Survey software corrects for this offset when a distance is received from the instrument.

-When there is no distance returned from the instrument (for example, in Standard mode, or in
Tracking mode with no target), there could be a vertical offset of up to 38 mm between the crosshair
shown on the video screen and the crosshair viewed through the telescope. This offset is most
noticeable at close range. The General Survey software uses the last measured distance to calculate
the offset correction. If no measurement has been taken, a distance of infinity is assumed."

Thank You Alan

I really appreciate your insight.

Cheers
Ralph

These shots were indeed taken with the mini-prism.
However the inaccessible points, beams on the ceiling, were done reflectorless.

I'm a little surprised about taking reflectorless shots not in tracking mode ...
to fine tune the shot I check the tracked distance for min/max values so that I see if I overshoot my point ...
I frequently change my DR min/max distance for each shot when taking shots trough fences or leaves. I found it no problem if you can first shoot a point on a facade and have a good distance trough an open line of sight and then forcing a good distance by these settings for shooting a corner.

So yes, tracking for DR mode for me.

As for the battery life ... the time spent in Video mode is limited, I used the S8 only for a week but never had power problems, our TSC2 run for 14hrs.

Chr.

>
> I'm a little surprised about taking reflectorless shots not in tracking mode ...
> to fine tune the shot I check the tracked distance for min/max values so that I see if I overshoot my point ...
> I frequently change my DR min/max distance for each shot when taking shots trough fences or leaves. I found it no problem if you can first shoot a point on a facade and have a good distance trough an open line of sight and then forcing a good distance by these settings for shooting a corner.
>
> So yes, tracking for DR mode for me.
>
> As for the battery life ... the time spent in Video mode is limited, I used the S8 only for a week but never had power problems, our TSC2 run for 14hrs.
>
>
> Chr.

Ok Here's the type of work I would use it for

Basically in a Millwright support capacity.
I know what some are going to say so I'll post the solution in a few.

Ralph