Need help with "Data Collect" on Topcon TS

I'm betting that you could find a used data collector for less than what it will take for you to figure out a way to make the very poor internal software of the older topcon total stations work. I've dabbled a bit with it myself with little success.

> I'm betting that you could find a used data collector for less than what it will take for you to figure out a way to make the very poor internal software of the older topcon total stations work. I've dabbled a bit with it myself with little success.

Gosh, that's encouraging, lol. I'm looking for one, but thought this would be a good exercise following on learning how to chain a line uphill, manually calculating compass rule and latitudes and departures, etc.

But I'm finding this is in the "middle ground", between truly old school basic skills, and the stuff that just has little to do with the task at hand, that is, measure and record data in the field consistently, reduce and adjust it properly. I've always believed you should never let crappy software get in the way of doing a good job. This is a challenge, though.

I really stretched for this current instrument (it's not that old at all...it's a GTS 255), and have absolutely used my "educational supply budget" up for this year...(ask my wife), so can't really buy a DC, unless it's broken such that I may be able to fix it. I'm pretty good with electronics. Perhaps someone has a "goner" that they could give me to fix, in exchange for using it for a few months, lol.

I'll keep doing trial and error this way though. It must be possible.

I have no experience with Topcon instruments, and I no expert.
Though I found information for the partly undocumented cryptic menus of my instrument on youtube.

I did a search for "topcon GTS guide", there are some Spanish vids that you might be able to get a clue. Sometimes it's possible to add subtitles and get them translated.

Also I did wonder if the points are coming through as SS side shots are you importing the data in the correct format?

> Gosh, that's encouraging, lol. I'm looking for one, but thought this would be a good exercise following on learning how to chain a line uphill, manually calculating compass rule and latitudes and departures, etc.
>
Sorry rfc, wasn't trying to be discouraging. I know you're learning and have put your own cash on the line to further your self inflicted education. 🙂 And I find that very commendable. I'd hate to see you frustrated by a truly piss-poor "data collector". I have a GPT-2003 which is very similar to your 255 and prior to that, I had a 211d which was kind of the first of that series. Great guns, poor software. I would not consider using Topcon's internal software on these machines as "learning old school methods".

> I really stretched for this current instrument (it's not that old at all...it's a GTS 255), and have absolutely used my "educational supply budget" up for this year...(ask my wife), so can't really buy a DC, unless it's broken such that I may be able to fix it. I'm pretty good with electronics. Perhaps someone has a "goner" that they could give me to fix, in exchange for using it for a few months, lol.
>
I'm sure there are DC's gathering dust on a shelf somewhere, but I understand budgets. I'd recommend this as a learning exercise. Use a field book and learn to manually perform every calculation a data collector does with only a scientific calculator. You'll be far superior to most of your peers as you will become much more than a button pusher. Learn to compute the horizontal distance and vertical difference from the instrument to the prism from slope distance and zenith angle (including use of curvature and refraction) Learn to compute directions (azimuths) from a given direction and turned angles, learn to compute coordinates from a direction and distance, learn to inverse a pair of coordinates to determine a direction and distance. Learn to determine heights between the instrument point and foresight point from slope distance and zenith angles (including use of curvature and refraction) for transferring elevations. Then graduate to area calculation of a polygon using DMD. Then add curve calculations, then add resections both two point and three point. Once you can do these things by hand, then a data collector will become what a data collector should be for you, a tool. You will be smarter than the machine and thus will protect the future against SkyNet and the ultimate rise of the machines including Arnold Schwarzenegger returning from the future to kill us all, or at the very least you'll protect us all from becoming a mindless, button pushing zombie by becoming a skilled technician.

> I'll keep doing trial and error this way though. It must be possible.

I've heard of people who have had success with this in the past. I agree that it is possible, but I would encourage you to expend your time in a more meaningful way toward furthering your education.

> I did a search for "topcon GTS guide", there are some Spanish vids that you might be able to get a clue. Sometimes it's possible to add subtitles and get them translated.
>
> Also I did wonder if the points are coming through as SS side shots are you importing the data in the correct format?

Thanks for the great idea! I wasn't thinking far enough out of the box. Now I can learn Spanish (again) along with Surveying 101.:-D
I searched further and found some in Arabic, but then again, I know when to quit.

> I would not consider using Topcon's internal software on these machines as "learning old school methods".
I agree.

> I'm sure there are DC's gathering dust on a shelf somewhere, but I understand budgets. I'd recommend this as a learning exercise. Use a field book and learn to manually perform every calculation a data collector does with only a scientific calculator.

>Learn to compute the horizontal distance and vertical difference from the instrument to the prism from slope distance and zenith angle (including use of curvature and refraction) Learn to compute directions (azimuths) from a given direction and turned angles, learn to compute coordinates from a direction and distance, learn to inverse a pair of coordinates to determine a direction and distance. Learn to determine heights between the instrument point and foresight point from slope distance and zenith angles (including use of curvature and refraction) for transferring elevations.

I use a field book and have done most all of the above, multiple times. Using Ghilani and Wolve, and Kelly/Foote/Davis.

>Then graduate to area calculation of a polygon using DMD. Then add curve calculations, then add resections both two point and three point. Once you can do these things by hand, then a data collector will become what a data collector should be for you, a tool.

These are certainly on my list of To Do's, along with a whole bunch more.

> I've heard of people who have had success with this in the past. I agree that it is possible, but I would encourage you to expend your time in a more meaningful way toward furthering your education.

I haven't really had more than a couple days to mess with it (I still have a day job, unfortunately+o( ), so I'm a long way from giving up. I'm not letting it get in the way of following up on some recent findings in the woods, and haven't lost my field book and pencils yet; (I use ONLY Mirado Black Warrior HB 2's). If I can get it down, I'd be able to use it to do the first (and most important to me) function of a data collector, and that is to just collect the data.

In other words, my primary interest with getting this to work is really just to get it to work as a "data conduit" to Star*net, which, (in large part, to Kent and others here), has proven to be a great tool; one I'm very in interested in improving my knowledge of. I don't think there's a fear of becoming a Button Pushing Zombie just yet. Stay tuned.:-D

Just to put your problems in perspective....

I have used a number of different series of Topcon Instruments since 1999.

In all this time, I have never encountered anyone attempting trying to use onboard data collection.

Those that have tried, either give up and hand book everything, or invest in a data collector.

If you do figure it out, let us know, you might end up being the go to guy when it comes to these matters.

Onboard data collectors are not everybody's first choice as the onboard programs are fairly rudimentary. To get the best out of a Topcon you will need to invest in a data cable and transfer software, which will allow you to transfer up to approximately 4000 points if necessary.
If you can do that with no transcription mistakes with paper and pencil in the field or back in the office, then I tip my hat to you.
It may be pertinent to go to your local survey shop and get one of the people there to run through the process with you, on your promise of them calibrating the instrument once a year.
Persevere with it, as it is a very simple process, once the routine is established, else get a couple of targets set up on a nice fine day and work through the onboard menus.
The manuals are not very good as they are written in Chinglish.

> Just to put your problems in perspective....
>
> I have used a number of different series of Topcon Instruments since 1999.
>
> In all this time, I have never encountered anyone attempting trying to use onboard data collection.
>
> Those that have tried, either give up and hand book everything, or invest in a data collector.
>
> If you do figure it out, let us know, you might end up being the go to guy when it comes to these matters.

Now I'm excited! I love challenges and am a glutton for punishment. I'm giving myself a personal deadline of one week.+o(

>To get the best out of a Topcon you will need to invest in a data cable and transfer software, which will allow you to transfer up to approximately 4000 points if necessary.
How about 24,000 points? That's what the instrument will hold.

> Persevere with it, as it is a very simple process, once the routine is established, else get a couple of targets set up on a nice fine day and work through the onboard menus.

Don't even need to go outside. I have a couple prisms set up in my office; the instrument is talking to the computer, and I'm getting data into Topcon Tools; it's just not yet the data I expected, lol.

> The manuals are not very good as they are written in Chinglish.

Understatement. There are "idiot steps", but no explanation of what the software is doing. I think I'm getting hung up on not knowing whether "OCNEZ" is setting new coordinates for the Occupied point, or identifying the Occupied Point from the list of previous points shot without changing its coordinates. Getting close though.

I don't think you can use 0 as an occupy point? Zero is only for a backsight when you want to key in an azimuth.

> I don't think you can use 0 as an occupy point? Zero is only for a backsight when you want to key in an azimuth.

Thanks for the clue. I've been using 0 as my first point. Getting close.

24,000 points. What about raw data (the actual measurements)? This will be the data you will need for least squares adjustments (as well as many other tasks).

Stan,
I'm not opposed to onboard data collection (even though it isn't really the American Way. I'm just opposed to the onboard Topcon data collection on these older Topcon guns. Newer guns have the full Topcon data collection software which is a whole other topic.

> 24,000 points. What about raw data (the actual measurements)? This will be the data you will need for least squares adjustments (as well as many other tasks).
>
> Stan,
> I'm not opposed to onboard data collection (even though it isn't really the American Way. I'm just opposed to the onboard Topcon data collection on these older Topcon guns. Newer guns have the full Topcon data collection software which is a whole other topic.

Yes, I can download the measurements. Here's a screen shot of Topcon Tools. I can get distances, angles, coordinates, etc.

My problem is the arcane menu process to set the occupied point, set the backsight point, etc., then set up on the next point, backsight, foresight, etc. (as in a traverse). I'm getting very close though. I'm limited to 5 points using the demo version, but that's all I need right now to figure out how to do it.

:good:

Color me in for gave up and just hard noted everything in the field book. It's actually easier to just write everything down and do it on a real program later than it is to try to deal with that terrible software.

Then I got a data collector, and life was much easier.

Starting Point in Topcon Tools, with Data Collector

I decided to try just setting out from point "1", calling the azimuth to point 2 00 00 00.Then set up on what I thought was point 2 and simply do a FS reading to point 3.
I did something wrong, because it substituted "Dummy" for what was supposed to be point 1, and moved it to where point 2 is shown. In other words, my intent was to set up on what's shown below as point 2, sight to what's shown as "Dummy", then moved to Dummy and shot to point 3. I know this is way confusing, but here's the question:

If one is using a data collector and TopSurv or whatever, MUST you call out a Back sight point, or can you just set out from your occupied point to another with a given angle (in this case 0 degrees)? If so, does Topcon Tools do the same thing as it did here...i.e. create a "Dummy" point?

I'm getting so close I can taste it:-O

Progress Update

Wow, this is extraordinarily painful. After about 4 hours, and 17 test files, I've succeeded in occupying a point (1), back sighting to a point (2), then sighting point (3). Whoopee.

Then, multiple tries to set up on 3, back sight to 1 were a total fail. The only people who might know what the internal software does must be the people that write the software for the DCs, like TopSurv....Oh, those are probably the same people that wrote the internal software.:-/

Not giving up yet, but DC's are sure looking appealing right about now, lol.

> Just to put your problems in perspective....
>
> I have used a number of different series of Topcon Instruments since 1999.
> In all this time, I have never encountered anyone attempting trying to use onboard data collection.
> Those that have tried, either give up and hand book everything, or invest in a data collector.
> If you do figure it out, let us know, you might end up being the go to guy when it comes to these matters.

Well, after an entire weekend trying, I'm not necessarily "throwing in the towel" for good, but for now anyway, I'm giving up. I've got to believe it's possible...I mean, data collectors must use the same "hooks" that this internal software uses to log the measurements. But without a thorough understanding of what its doing, going into the field relying on this "technology" is ludicrous. The software is truly horrendous. I'll stick with my field book until such time I can afford to acquire a data collector.

Until then, I've got to turn my attention back to the basics.