AutoCAD C3d

One thing the "figure" does is give the surveyor a diffcult and clumsy object to work with and modify. I find figures so clumsy to modify that I use Standalone Carlson Survey to bring in the crd file and create the FTF linework and then export the points to a csv file. I then open the dwg in C3D and import the csv file. I know this is a bastard way to do things and I guess I could just explode all the figures in the C3D drawing but then I would still have 3D polylines and I prefer 2D lines with 0 end elevations.

Thanks, Robert.

From the dearth of replies I'm guessing that you and I aren't the only ones not using Autodesk's F to F.

Survey Figures are like 3D Polylines, except they can have true horizontal curves. 3D Polylines can only have straight line segments. Survey Figures can also be configured to display in either 2D or 3D formats, depending on your preference.

You can also create Surface breaklines very easily from Survey Figures, even if they are configured to display in 2D (flattened to Z=0). Starting with the 2011 version, there are some new tools that help with editing of Survey Figures (such as the one for eliminating crossing breaklines), along with improvements to some of the old ones, eliminating some of the old problems. (Actually, some of these tools are also in the 2010 Subscription Advantage Pack.) Along with the new linework coding system introduced in C3D 2010, this makes the F2F stuff work relatively well.

Hi Mark:

We're running linework in C3D 2011. It obviously isn't perfect, but seems to be the best that ACAD has done so far, that sorta works (without spending lots of time or money to do something better). You can customize it to some extent, and you no longer need to use field books to convert to linework. The curve generation is pretty poor - it requires quite a bit of manipulation for certain curves.

Once you run the linework, it is pretty easy to get it into the surface, and I really like that you can easily do horizontal and vertical offsets to make other related breaklines.

Paul

Mark,

I would be willing to assist.
Since I am in Portland, it should work out.
While not using it in a while, I have some files and stuff.

Luke

Comments on Feature Lines, Survey Figures etc.

Feature Lines - think of them as 3D polylines with intelligence. Civil 3D uses them in several ways throughout the program:

• Survey breaklines. I like this because the line you see and edit on screen remains tied to the surface. Make an edit and when the surface rebuilds you see the result.
• Site design. Feature lines are used as the input for grading objects, and each grading creates another feature line as part of it's output.
• Corridors. When you create a corridor model for a road the software creates feature lines to connect the cross sections, forming the linework along the roadway.

Advantages of feature lines

• 3D curves.
• Special editing tools are available, which allow you to drape feature lines across surfaces, add vertices anywhere with elevations interpolated from the existing line, and project elevations from one object to another.
• Feature lines can display special linetypes which 3d polys cannot.
• Where feature lines touch each other they interact to ensure that they have the same elevation at the crossing. This is very useful for surface modeling.

Disadvantages to feature lines

• There is no equivalent to the PLINEGEN variable, so the line starts drawing at each vertex along it's length. If your data includes a series of short segments along the line then it won't look right.
• Some of the regular ACad editing commands don't work with feature lines.

Survey Figures are a special type of feature line. When field data is imported and processed in the survey database the program can create survey figures to link the points according to field codes. If your survey data has the command codes in it then you can do things like start and end lines, create 2 and 3 point curves and build closed figures. You can also create something called a figure prefix database which will automate the creation of the figures and specify layer, style, whether or not the figure is used as a breakline or a parcel line, etc.
The greatest disadvantage for survey figures, and the reason why I don't use them is that they're linked to the survey database. This means that editing them requires you to have the relevant database open, and some of the edits require changes to the fieldbook data.

From what I've heard, for those who can modify their field procedures to use the figure coding system it can work very well. It's a part of the program that we're watching develop. If we see a way to use it in future then we will.

Currently we use a utility program in C3D to do something similar to the F2F process. The utility lets you pick points, and then it creates 3d polylines to link all points with the same descriptions. Once they're created we convert them into featurelines and then use the editing tools to add curves, fix crossing strings, etc.

Comments on Feature Lines, Survey Figures etc.

> Currently we use a utility program in C3D to do something similar to the F2F process. The utility lets you pick points, and then it creates 3d polylines to link all points with the same descriptions. Once they're created we convert them into featurelines and then use the editing tools to add curves, fix crossing strings, etc.

I think you might want to revisit the process. Things changed a fair bit in C3D 2010 and 2011. It sounds like the process you are using is a lot more laborious than using the F2F with the new linework coding system. And it is now significantly easier to edit Survey Figures. Well, at least if they are displayed 3D... We're still using 2010 in production, and if Survey Figures are flattened to Z=0, they can't be grip-edited the way they can when they are at elevation. I presume it's still the same in 2011 and probably 2012, although I haven't actually checked.

Mark-

We've been struggling with the wonders of C3D for about a year now. I'm from the school of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," so I'm convinced that these changes Autodesk has introduced are designed to generate income for them, not for the users.

Anyway, the auto linework routine which generates the 3D figures can be frustrating, but it does have good uses.

The workflow I have been using is fairly simple and I end up with 2D polylines.

Once you have the figures created in your drawing do the following, in this order:
1. "Explode" - this will turn the figures into 3D polylines.
2. "Convert3dpolys" - this will make all the vertices have the same elevation
3. "Flatten" - when prompted to delete duplicate objects, pick "No" - this is important to maintain the x,y integrity of the polyline, and no, you will not have a duplicate object.

Now you have nice, flat 2d polylines that you can snap distances to and not get slope distances reported.

Carlson Survey ?

I am downloading the free 30 day trial right now.

I have also watched some encouraging F2F videos at www.carlsonsw.com

Just a thought...