Hey everyone! ?????ÿ
I usually reserve this virtual "speech" for the June 30th anniversary date. But a lot has been going on in regard to SurveyorConnect and I'd like to bring you all up to speed.
Speaking of speed, the caching issue is STILL being worked on. Crazy, right? It seems the server move has really stumped the developer regarding the licensing. I'm not sure I fully understand the whole problem, but basically, it's not operational (or updateable) until the licensing problem is resolved. I've been a squeaky wheel though and hoping for some action very soon.
Ok, sorry for that detour. Back to the point of this post!
You may have noticed a lack of advertisers here in recent months. Our largest advertisers disappeared, thus left a massive hole in SurveyorConnect's funding. I have my own thoughts on why they've disappeared, but I won't elaborate much, other than to say that I think it has something to do with the Russia/Ukraine war. I don't want this going political so let's please just leave that right there.
We do currently have a couple of small businesses advertising with us, so I thank them greatly for their support. Please feel free to visit their websites and get to know them.
And I also don't want to forget about our dedicated BeerLeggers and Supporters. Your contributions are much appreciated, and they do help keep the lights on.
But I'm going to be perfectly candid with you: Donations and club subscriptions have traditionally made up about 10% to 15% of SC's revenue. Advertisers were covering all of the hard costs and part of my time spent here. Even with the advertisers in full swing, it still wasn't accounting for all of my time. It's a tough spot to be in, even when we have a bunch of advertisers, because my time isn't completely paid for (and far from it). It's far more lucrative for me to be working on paid projects via my web development company than it is to be working here at SC. But I love SC and I don't want to see it go away. That's the main reason it is still here to this day. It's certainly not the money, because it's not a profitable venture.
I've had a few offers to buy SC in the last few years, all of which were prior to The Great Advertisers Withdrawal of 2022. They certainly weren't enough to make them worth my while (not even remotely close), so you can only imagine what a buyer might think now, in a time when we have almost no advertising income.
Let me stop there for just a second to make a very important point: This is NOT a campaign to solicit donations, nor is it intended to be a whining session. I'm just trying to be transparent with you about SC's current state. Plus, I have a point, and I'm working on getting to that. This is all basically a preface to my point, at this point. 😉
One of the reasons I chose to move SC to a new server, was because I got a great deal on my software "stack" for my web development business. All of my clients are currently on this new system and more great improvements are on the way. I pulled the trigger on the deal because I knew it was robust enough to bring SC along for the ride, making it less of a financial burden on me. Ironically, the new caching system is still a thorn in my side, since it's not working yet -- but I know we'll get there. I don't have the time nor resources to put 24/7 effort into this, but it's mostly out of my wheelhouse (other than communication and being the squeaky wheel) right now.
Over the last few years, I've been watching other niche-specific forums die due to lack of funding, advertisers leaving, lack of interest, etc. I've always watched what others have done to see if I could learn from them. It seems that most of the ones that died, did so simply because they were a forum and nothing more. The ones that diversified seem to have mostly survived, and I feel like I'm even seeing a resurgence of popularity in forums, if done correctly. Facebook groups are still popular, but people are getting tired of Facebook in general -- I think this might be why some forums may be coming back, but only if they have features that appeal to everyone. To top it off, I think that the popularity and effectiveness of ad blockers in web browsers is becoming a real problem when it comes to selling advertising space.
So... my point (OMG, finally getting to my point) is that I think SC may need to pivot. I've had some ideas that I've been planning for years to monetize SC but without giving up the free nature of the forums. I've just not had as much time as I'd hoped to work on them prior to The Great Advertisers Withdrawal of 2022. It's that conundrum of working on SC versus website clients.
If I'm to keep SC going, it needs to pivot. Somewhere between all the recent changes, working on client websites that themselves are pivoting in their own markets, COVID, recent surges of new traffic, and my own thoughts about monetization options, I've been getting very serious about pivoting. SC needs to be more than "just" a forum. I know we've been through many migrations over the years, and those can be painful, but I'm looking at ways to keep our current forum system and simply integrate it into something more powerful. I've been testing several things lately and am zeroing in on an actual plan. I'm looking at this like my last chance to really make this thing GO and stay going in such a way that becomes financially feasible. Imagine that.
It's no small task, but I still hold lots of hope in SurveyorConnect. It's very dear to my heart and I'm not ready to let go. I could have taken one of those offers and walked away, but I still see so much potential. The hard part is finding the TIME to put into it, knowing that it's an unpaid risk. But I'm mentally revving up for that. Besides, I really do love building websites, especially when I can get creative, so this could turn out to be a lot of fun, too.
At the end of the day, my goal here is to be transparent with you as much as possible. This place wouldn't be what it is without you. Even without advertisers, I love how surveyors gather together and help one another solve problems every single day. And maybe goof off a little bit while we're at it. It's so damn cool. Just know that I don't want to lose this important aspect of SC, hence my desire to keep the forums intact and functioning normally.
So, I'll just leave that little bomb right here and let you all ponder it for a bit. My gears are still turning with ideas, but we're reaching a point where I get serious and really jump on this... or not.
Do you have any great ideas or feedback on any of this? I'd love to get your thoughts. 🙂
Thank you, Wendell,
So, according to FL/GA’s recent post, I am now meet the criteria of being an “Old Fart”. Surprised yes, well not really, I’m just surprised at how quickly I arrived. Anyway, sorry to consume more of your time, but I have to admit that I don’t comprehend what the ‘PIVOT’ means?¿ Can you elaborate for the sake of an ‘Old Fart’?
Thank you!
Repeated post (senior moment).
Anyway, sorry to consume more of your time, but I have to admit that I don’t comprehend what the ‘PIVOT’ means?¿ Can you elaborate for the sake of an ‘Old Fart’?
Good point! Despite my 200-million-word essay, I never did say HOW we would pivot!
Well, many folks will heave a huge GROAN when I say this, but I'm thinking we need to be more like a social network to attract the young'ns. But like I mentioned in the OP, I want to keep the forum intact. With the popularity of Facebook groups, I'm thinking it could be a wise move to provide a similar environment IN ADDITION TO the forums. The pivot would likely also include other similarities, but again, the forum would remain intact.
I'm not looking to be the next Zuckerberg and I have no intentions of violating anyone's privacy. In fact, I'm quite the opposite -- I try my damnedest to maintain the privacy of everyone here. No selling of personal information, etc. I'd sooner shut the site down than give in to greed.
Structuring things like a social network also opens the door to integrating other features, like a marketplace (instead of for sale posts in the forum), groups (similar to Facebook groups but specifically for surveying), document repositories, much improved private messaging, events calendars, etc.
Interesting. My SWMBOAWD always asks me if "I'm on that Facebook thing for surveyors " which generates an eyebrow lift from me and my standard response, " this is way better than Facebook, don't say that..."
I'm nothing else but glad this place exists, and will throw anything I can think of to be as helpful as I can. I actually have a close personal friend who recently left Facebook (on his own accord) so when I talk with him I'll see if he has any information for the platform and forum workflow, etc.. If I can grab his attention, I'll let you know to see if I can lob questions toward him about one of the coolest sites that benefits society and a bunch of crotchety old and not so old surveyors and associated Geospatial personnel.
Thanks again for your dedication and the passion for keeping SC relevant and awesome!
this could turn out to be a lot of fun,
looks important to me.
Thanks again for your time and efforts and to keep us notified about what's going on behind the scene.
Christof.
This "pivot" sounds more like a paradigm shift, which I believe could be the demise of surveyor connect. Have you considered a subscription? With over 10k members, it seems like a reasonable yearly subscription such as $20 would help sustain the site.
A more relevant statistic is how many distinct individuals have visited the site in the last month. Probably a modest fraction of the 13k registered.
Making it a subscription site could kill it. If it is necessary to go in that direction, consider whether it would work to continue free read access but a modest subscription for posting rights. That way people could see the benefit and be enticed in. Maybe that's giving away the store. I dunno.
I occasionally (not often enough) donate a small amount and could afford a modest subscription.
I've recently seen what happens when a web site doesn't make money. The geocaching site dumped all their bench mark data--recovery and photo info for tens of thousands of PIDs: some suspect reports, but some good info not in NGS.
I get teased about "Survey Facebook" too.
Not sure what the "pivot" will look like, but TikTok is such a powerful medium that Google was "losing out", so they introduced "Shorts" as a response. Both in terms of reaching people, and in terms of content. Some of the content is amusing, usually some of the dumbest things I've ever seen, and completely addictive.
Basically, "people" don't read anymore, and video is immersive for the users. And it affects most people when used/introduced, but think of the person that had a cell phone in their hands since they were 3-years old.
Even now, we have quite a few users that post static/dynamic gif's as responses.
Maybe young surveyors will TikTok/Shorts their way into the future, but the more "traditional" forms of social media (text based) seem to be only for "older folks". (Look at the decline of Twitter and Facebook with young people.)
Not sure how you bridge the gap between the old and the new as far as making money, but social media isn't free. And if the advertisers are out, then the subscribers are stuck footing the bill, unless you turn it into a free-for-all by selling our subscriber info.
Just come up with a completely new revenue model that works across all ages/demographics and platforms, and then you won't need to bother anymore...
(That was sarcasm, for those "TikTok/Shorts/I Don't Know How To Have In-Person Communication" people.)
The short videos can be entertaining, but most have low content of useful information. And it isn't a 2-way exchange.
Well, a majority of social media consumption is 1-way, including this forum.
I would assert that this forum would lose much of it's value/benefit without 2-way interaction.
It all boils down to this: is SC a hobby, or a business?
If it's a hobby, then Wendell will continue to wrangle his brain to find a way to make it work for free, or next to nothing. (Hard work, headache, and charity.)
If it's a business, then he has customers. If the business provides value to the customers, then the customers will pay. And then it boils down to what is the right amount of revenue to make it work with/without subsidy (adverts), etc.
Sometimes the business model that works mathematically, isn't the one that works in reality.
A lot of folks join this forum, and I've asked before, is this SurveyorConnect, or GIS-Connect, or I-Just-Set-Up-An-LLC-And-Don't-Know-What-I'm-DoingConnect?
The bigger you are, the harder it is please everyone.
And recent "marketing hiccups" have shown that when you don't know your customers and/or willfully neglect your primary existing customer base, then you will get your Bud Light moment.
Pivot if it means keeping this forum going...
Pivot.
Change is inevitable.
My SWMBOAWD always asks me if "I'm on that Facebook thing for surveyors " which generates an eyebrow lift from me and my standard response, " this is way better than Facebook, don't say that..."
I may be biased, but this is indeed WAY better than Facebook, especially when you consider that we don't violate your privacy here.
Have you considered a subscription?
Thank you for the suggestion. I have, indeed, considered this, but I feel it would stifle forum activity. There likely wouldn't be many subscribers, so it wouldn't amount to much. The whole reason the forum is incredibly busy is because of Google search rankings, which would decrease immensely if activity was stifled. It's unfortunate, as I thought of this years ago, but I just don't see it working in our favor.
I've recently seen what happens when a web site doesn't make money. The geocaching site dumped all their bench mark data--recovery and photo info for tens of thousands of PIDs: some suspect reports, but some good info not in NGS.
To be blatantly clear about all this, I don't think most people owning/running a site like this would still keep the site going. It's been in the red since inception and has never had a moment in time where it would be considered profitable or breaking even by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm not ready to give up, even after almost 13 years.
I'm a member of a few forum support forums (LOL, how's that for inception) and I see posts about giving up all the time. It's usually about money.
Maybe young surveyors will TikTok/Shorts their way into the future, but the more "traditional" forms of social media (text based) seem to be only for "older folks". (Look at the decline of Twitter and Facebook with young people.)
Not sure how you bridge the gap between the old and the new as far as making money, but social media isn't free. And if the advertisers are out, then the subscribers are stuck footing the bill, unless you turn it into a free-for-all by selling our subscriber info.
Just come up with a completely new revenue model that works across all ages/demographics and platforms, and then you won't need to bother anymore...
I know some of this is sarcasm, but you make some really great points!
The goal of adding social features is not so much to keep up with Facebook or any of the others, it's more about trying to make this site more inviting to all ages/types of surveyors. The forum can still be the forum and we can add other great features in hopes of attracting young'ns. I don't see adding a TikTok-like feature in the near future, but if I did, it would be it's own feature and not a replacement for the forum. It would just be another feature. Use it if you want, but certainly there'd be no requirement and you could still use legacy features. 🙂
But yes, the goal is to implement our own stuff that can potentially raise funds and keep things going. Maybe we'll end up developing our own model that works for us and shake things up a bit. Whatever, I just want to keep the site online and relevant.
which generates an eyebrow lift
I told my wife she was drawing her eyebrows on to high...
She looked surprised
TikTok is such a powerful medium
"Powerful" only in the sense that a whole lot of folks watch it. It's just television, but even less useful from an intellectual standpoint (and television barely registers on that scale). Like @bill93 points out, videos are not discussions.
If we have to incorporate more "social media"-like content in addition to these forums, fine. But I would hope that the forums are kept at least somewhat separate from the social media aspects. Because if this forum content goes away, or social media bleeds over, I'm fairly certain that it will lose much of what makes it attractive to those who contribute here.
This seems like it would be a great discussion for a summer forum Meetup preferably somewhere where it's not super hot maybe say the Oregon coast or Salem if you know you want to go out by I-5 and stay away from the ocean crowds.
I had a webGIS development class and we discussed that conceptually the largest sites are free because the users don't have any skin in the game.
they create user IDs etc and they can go about it as they want. That was designed and implemented way back in the day, like when web crawler etc were existent and Google became the next winning version of that.
Gmail and all ll the things that followed behind it essentially took advantage of the fact that free is fast and easy, so people want that and because they took all of our data and turn free into a multi trillion dollar industry of what they do now we pay the consequences for not having regulated it from the get-go...
anyway, LinkedIn is morphed into too much like Facebook, and can't survive unless it's allowed to be like that. Sucks.
Have you considered working with the state boards/societies to find out if this could be an additional platform to get out their quarterly or monthly or once a year because they don't have people that are capable willing to do so or even have the wherewithal to put together those types of things, and this could be a platform so then maybe they could have more information being sent out locally regionally and this could be a form that could help them and it doesn't take a ton of buying for them because most of the people that support that stuff probably participate here at some level.
the majority of state board society newsletters suck because someone that was engaged left and they're left holding this not very useful circumstance of what used to be something great and by having a centralized location I don't know if that's a good option or not I'm I'm just speaking while I drive to a job site.
just free associating while driving.....
I'll throw some more concrete ideas down and send it to you in an email.