Trimble R10 vs R8-3

For the price of one single Trimble R10 Network RTK Rover, you can purchase a Satlab SL600 IntRTK Base + SL600 IntRTK Rover, includes SL55 Data Controller + SurvCE. The Satlab SL600's standard configuration includes Internal GSM Modem + 2watt XDL UHF Radio mode, ready for Static, RTK Base & Rover operations. Free Firmware updates for life.

Check out the Satlab SL600 Product Review in the December issue of American Surveyor Magazine.
-BbB B-)

R8-4

Bring your big check book..

I've ordered checks for the "big check book" 😉

What do you like about the R8-4 compared to the R10? How about the R8-S?

George Matica, post: 350371, member: 6663 wrote: I've ordered checks for the "big check book" 😉

What do you like about the R8-4 compared to the R10? How about the R8-S?

R8s is a modular version of the R8-4. I am not sure that they will still be selling the R8-4 any more.

Like the SPS985 it comes with no options (but cheap). You have to pay to add options for rover, base, GLONASS, data logging, etc;
The SPS985 is the same apart form the metal shell. (it could be a cheaper option for you). Also the SPS985 has xFill.

R10 adds the HD-GNSS engine. So instead of fixed/float you have it constantly evaluating the ambiguities. Should perform more reliably in multipath environments.

It also has the future constellations unlocked so find out how much these options cost on the R8 if you want compare like with like.

The full R10 has the ebubble with compensated point method. Also Xfill. R10 lite does not have these.

There is a new Trimble DL Android app for starting static data collection on the R8s. You tell it the antenna height, point name and start it logging. Can be used to transfer the log file as well I think. This app will also work with other Trimble receivers if they have the newest firmware on-board. Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but we have a SPS985 that we use for static logging so will give it a go. We have 2 R10's that we use for RTK.

R10 is a very nice receiver and future proof. Go for it if the boss will pay! We got a good reduction on the list price, they were having a bit of a promotion on them.

there is a comparision here http://www.trimble.com/Survey/Trimble-R8s.aspx?tab=GNSS_System_Comparison

I had a Trimble guy try to give me an R-10, for my Javad. I figured it out. He had a deep woods job, and needed to get it done correctly!

(wink)

N

We have both. R10 if you have great cell service AND the reference station isn't far. R8 if you don't have BOTH of those.

Kris Morgan, post: 350396, member: 29 wrote: We have both. R10 if you have great cell service AND the reference station isn't far. R8 if you don't have BOTH of those.

I would be interested why the R8 would outperform the R10 under these circumstances?
We have the SIM card in the TSC3 for receiving NTRIP, but they both have radios. Cell modem is available for R8, I think you have to have instead of the radio though.
Do you think the R8 is better at resolving a long vector?

George Matica, post: 350303, member: 6663 wrote: Accountant says we can spend some money...

Trimble R10 vs R8-3

For those that have used both, how do they compare?
What's the latest street price for each?

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

If the R10 and R8 is sitting there, and they have a choice which one to grab, the crews will always take the R10.

squowse, post: 350399, member: 7109 wrote: I would be interested why the R8 would outperform the R10 under these circumstances?
We have the SIM card in the TSC3 for receiving NTRIP, but they both have radios. Cell modem is available for R8, I think you have to have instead of the radio though.
Do you think the R8 is better at resolving a long vector?

I think the lag in the time from the reference station has something to do with it. 20 miles and under seem to be the sweet spot. You can do it with longer distances but the time to resolve takes longer it seems. If the cell service is sketchy, then take the R8. I do, when I lose cell service, make a lot of static shots with the R10 and process against multiple CORS stations when I get back. They are fairly close so it's not an issue.

Kris Morgan, post: 350401, member: 29 wrote: I think the lag in the time from the reference station has something to do with it. 20 miles and under seem to be the sweet spot. You can do it with longer distances but the time to resolve takes longer it seems. If the cell service is sketchy, then take the R8. I do, when I lose cell service, make a lot of static shots with the R10 and process against multiple CORS stations when I get back. They are fairly close so it's not an issue.

Are you saying the R8 fixes faster than the R10 when the base is more than 20 miles away?
And that the cell modem in the R8 can handle poor reception areas better than the one in the R10?

I'm selling my R8, maybe I should ask more money for it!

I don't use a cell card in my R8. It's with it's base. I am saying that the R8 fixes faster in less that pristine conditions.

If you can get whichever you want go for the R10. It has a lot of features that the R8 doesn't, and does a lot of things better. It's also much more durable, and the battery and battery compartment are a lot better.

Nate The Surveyor, post: 350381, member: 291 wrote: I had a Trimble guy try to give me an R-10, for my Javad. I figured it out. He had a deep woods job, and needed to get it done correctly!

(wink)

N

I wouldn't take fixed/Float into the woods.

If it said JAVAD on it, it'd be fine. But, if it said TRIMBLE, you'd be sinning!

Nate The Surveyor, post: 352626, member: 291 wrote: If it said JAVAD on it, it'd be fine. But, if it said TRIMBLE, you'd be sinning!

Nate - fixed/Float is a guess - a guess that must be proven over time, on the fly, and can only be proven to 68% confidence.

OK, Mr AK, have you seen the Javad run? Have you seen how it works? During testing, and during analysis, the Javad unit was placed in automatic mode. Ran for days, in places, that are impossible for GPS.

I used to set my Topcon units up, and get 3 fixed shots in the woods. Then, MOVE over 3-5 feet, and repeat. Then, use compass and tape to measure between the points. What this effectively did was:
1.) The scatter of the first 3 shots gave me an idea of how much dithering was at that individual point. Typically, it would give a spread of 0.05 to 0.12'. IF it gave more than that, then it was a warning. Usually these 3 fixes were about 2 minutes apart.
2.) The move over, and loss of init, gave me an independent look at the 1st 3 shots above.

3.) If it was a critical shot, then I'd return one more time to one of the above points, and shoot one more time. IF it fit, I figured we were golden, to the TOLERANCE of the spread shown.

What Javad has done, is condensed all the above game, into ONE.

It sits, and starts Piles of coords. At one minute into the observation, it can have 4 PILES of coords running simultaneously. Then, it determines which PILE is good. So, it throws out the bad piles, and works over the good pile. Then, at the very end, it RE-observes the Piles again, This is to verify the init. This gives the greatest time change between the BEGINNING init, and ENDING init.

IF this is statistically sound, this is the JAVAD POINT. It tells you what it's estimated accuracy is, and you determine what to do. If it is close enough, go to the next shot. Or, re-observe.

Another thing you can do is set it to AUTOMATIC mode.
It does all the above. Stores the shot, and re-starts. Un-attended.

If you have a particularly important shot, you can set it in this mode. Leave, and come back in 30 minutes, and it will have an accumulated pile of 15 coordinates. Use the average function, and you now have a BETTER coordinate, than a Total Station generally could give, with a random traverse.
Using this method, you could have a 30 minute time span, and a pretty good look at the spread of the shots.

For me, I did a test on an old job, that was based on Static 2 hr + observations, to GOOD CLEAR spots, and total station to the points in the thickets. (This is standard protocol, for GPS, up until now) The worst difference I could get, was 0.12', and it WARNED me that it was a poor shot.

During testing phase of this sort of thing, Javad people left their units out all night, in pine thickets, and other horrible places. And, shot some hundreds of shots, to try to break the thing.
I will confess, the COGO, and other tools, are not very refined. (I've been trying to make helpful suggestions, and they are implementing the ones that don't pull teeth)

But the data collection will make your whole body stiff, and quiver from head to toe. It is flat awesome.
Until you actually get your hands on one, and understand what it is doing, and take a test drive, you cannot participate in an objective discussion of this fine piece of equipment. You can participate, but you are simply discussing, what you know not.

Take a test ride. Get back to me. Until you do, you are kissing assumptions foot.

Have a Javad LS, and a smile!

Nate

Actually, Mr AK, what you said is true for Trimble GPS. I agree. I have not yet seen the R10, so I have no comment about it's performance.

N