Nate The Surveyor, post: 444491, member: 291 wrote: This is one area that is of interest to those who are thinking about "What's the noise, in the Javad camp?"
I'll do my best to do this, however, there are some variations, on this data flow. But this is kind of typical.Drive to job, and select a place in the clear, good for base. This is a job you have never been on.
Set up base, Triumph 2. It's the little green one. Turn it on. After turning it on, it is fully controlled via the LS.
Set up radio, some 20' away, on a pole. Plug it in, and it's on.
Turn on the LS.
Input job name.
Sync radios.
Use a "Here" for base coord.Base is ALWAYS collecting a raw file.
Collect data all day. RTK All boundary shots ALSO have raw data.
Return to base, connect, and download BASE raw file, into the ROVER LS.
Now the rover "has it all".
Go home, or to a place that has wifi. (You can use cell for mifi) Or, as I usually do, hook a LAN wire directly into the side of the LS.
Press DPOS button. ALL the raw data is SENT to a JAVAD computer, where it is processed. Then, returned, telling you how much shift occurred to put your days work into SPC.
Depending on your settings, now the BASE coord is SHIFTED, to be on TRUE SPC. (as opposed to the HERE you used, to start the job).
And, all your boundary shots, have a RTK solution, and a POST PROCESSED solution. You are flagged, if there is any appreciable difference between RTK and PPK.Now, you upload the day's work, into your CAD machine, and you are STARTING your job, with PURE spc. You upload your days work, via a thumb drive. Plug the thumb drive into the LS, export coords, in ASCii format, comma delimited. Then, stick the Thumb Drive into a port in your CAD station, and upload the ascii file.
There is your day's work, in SPC, ready for you to work on.Other systems I have seen, require you to: Go to job, and set up base for 4+ hrs, go home, and OPUS it.
Return to job, and do RTK off the SPC coord.
The Javad condenses this, so it all happens at once. One trip to the field, and you are on SPC. Before downloading the Data collector, LS. (The LS has a data collector built in).Others have asked, so I wrote this down.
There are other things, such as LDP, and localize etc. but, the CORE coords are LAT LON.
I wrote this down, to save time, explaining this.
I hope this helps.
Nate
PS, this post is NON solicited, and non compensated. It is simply my contribution back to this fine profession. Helping fellow professionals stay current.
Thank so for sharing.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 444491, member: 291 wrote: This is one area that is of interest to those who are thinking about "What's the noise, in the Javad camp?"
I'll do my best to do this, however, there are some variations, on this data flow. But this is kind of typical.Drive to job, and select a place in the clear, good for base. This is a job you have never been on.
Set up base, Triumph 2. It's the little green one. Turn it on. After turning it on, it is fully controlled via the LS.
Set up radio, some 20' away, on a pole. Plug it in, and it's on.
Turn on the LS.
Input job name.
Sync radios.
Use a "Here" for base coord.Base is ALWAYS collecting a raw file.
Collect data all day. RTK All boundary shots ALSO have raw data.
Return to base, connect, and download BASE raw file, into the ROVER LS.
Now the rover "has it all".
Go home, or to a place that has wifi. (You can use cell for mifi) Or, as I usually do, hook a LAN wire directly into the side of the LS.
Press DPOS button. ALL the raw data is SENT to a JAVAD computer, where it is processed. Then, returned, telling you how much shift occurred to put your days work into SPC.
Depending on your settings, now the BASE coord is SHIFTED, to be on TRUE SPC. (as opposed to the HERE you used, to start the job).
And, all your boundary shots, have a RTK solution, and a POST PROCESSED solution. You are flagged, if there is any appreciable difference between RTK and PPK.Now, you upload the day's work, into your CAD machine, and you are STARTING your job, with PURE spc. You upload your days work, via a thumb drive. Plug the thumb drive into the LS, export coords, in ASCii format, comma delimited. Then, stick the Thumb Drive into a port in your CAD station, and upload the ascii file.
There is your day's work, in SPC, ready for you to work on.Other systems I have seen, require you to: Go to job, and set up base for 4+ hrs, go home, and OPUS it.
Return to job, and do RTK off the SPC coord.
The Javad condenses this, so it all happens at once. One trip to the field, and you are on SPC. Before downloading the Data collector, LS. (The LS has a data collector built in).Others have asked, so I wrote this down.
There are other things, such as LDP, and localize etc. but, the CORE coords are LAT LON.
I wrote this down, to save time, explaining this.
I hope this helps.
Nate
PS, this post is NON solicited, and non compensated. It is simply my contribution back to this fine profession. Helping fellow professionals stay current.
I'm not sure what you mean by the statement that other systems require you to collect the static data, go back to the office, then back to the field for RTK work.
Maybe GPS in the late 80s early 90s only worked that way, but by the late 90s it surely didn't.
Not sure when OPUS became available, but by the early 2000s I was getting data from an engineer who would go to the field and collect data all day, OPUS it later and send his design out. Only problem was he didn't set any control, he would just set up the base, no monument. That still doesn't work.
Your work flow is basically what everyone I know has been doing for a couple of decades.
Worked in TSO and TGO, probably in TRIMMAP too, but that was too long ago for me to remember.
Now you can choose which system to use to process the static data with, send it without touching anything and you're ready. For a long time we had a static/RTK base setup at the office, turn it on and collect data to process against. I used it till the local CORS became available.
Heck, at one time we set-up a modem in the trucks, sent dat files to the office over cell connections, processed the base data and sent the new coordinate back to the field crew to input real time. It was a bit of a PITA so it faded away, but it was possible, and it worked.
Javad might do some of this better somehow, that wouldn't suprise me. But, you are describing an old work flow.
Be careful of blindly using sent away processed data. I was hoping this kinda thing would stop, but we were just involved with another OPUS created disaster.
If you look at how many semi-out of date gps recievers are in use today, what I posted makes more sense.
I did not post to say Javad was the ONLY unit/brand that had tried to smooth the process.
I posted it to say that "data flow had changed". It does not surprise me that others have improved. The old way, that I posted, was ALL that was available, when I first got into dual freq. GPS.
I could not tell the data flow story, for Trimble.... I dont have trimble.
Do you know how many practitioners, are not up to date with... Well with anything?
I'm still running Carlson 2009... Windows 7.
My work waggon is a 1997. Family waggon is 1999.
Now, still driving an older car is no sin. But, out of date surveying equipment... That's another story.
I want to encourage others to be aware.
Continuing education has not been enough.
Now, does Javad do some things better?
Well, it does use Glonass. I don't think others are yet. If not, they will... Eventually.
Since my Javad base uses 1" rate, and some CORS stations use faster rates, such as 15", or 5", this brings us more data, faster. And, since its all done with the rover, you can do it anyplace you can get cell service.
It's just fast, and slick.
Now, it yields a complete report, on each cors used, and tells you residuals, from each. I don't know how to read ALL the data in one of these reports. But it's there.
It's my first foray into modern GPS. I don't own any other brand, so i can't compare, but it is very painless, as compared to my old Topcon Legacy E's.
I gotta run... I became "grandpa" last night!
I became "grandpa" last night!
CONGRATULATIONS NATE!
Nate The Surveyor, post: 444847, member: 291 wrote: I became "grandpa" last night!
Best thing I have heard you say in a while!
😉
I think the improvement in javads workflow is that the receiver itself uploads the static file in a cloud service and gets back with a solution. The standard workflow is to set the base collect static data while doing rtk and then back at the office download the static file and throw it in a software like topcon tools or spectrum survey to get a solution. No need to go back in this workflow either.
I also use (not very often i admit) another similar wirkflow but with 1 rover only in areas where cell coverage is not good. I use stop'n go method using sokkias software and collect the points and then back at the office i download a base file from a cors (vrs usually) and process the vectors. If they are fixed all is ok. It is not the best method but it works if only one rover is available.
I collect satellite raw data at the base while running RTK. That data gets downloaded to the dc at the end of the session and sent to OPUS. I then use StarNet to resolve the vectors to the OPUS'd base position.
BTW - If I return for a second, third, forth, etc. day I can set up the base over the same point, collect for OPUS each day, and average (weighted) the several OPUS results.
Mark I'm glad you brought that up. The Javad does something funny in that area. Every session of rtk makes a new coordinate value for the base station. Off of D POS then all you have to do is average them if you want to. But many times I just hold the first one. Because the next ones aren't very far off. Then, it does a weighted average on all the side shots and the base station. It's a serious surveying machine.
Are you seeing much seperation between the Javad processor snd OPUS?
A few hundredths... Because it uses glonass, i'd guess.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 444888, member: 291 wrote: Because it uses glonass, i'd guess.
Datum / epoch difference?
Nate The Surveyor, post: 444888, member: 291 wrote: A few hundredths... Because it uses glonass, i'd guess.
How are the z values? I will usually see z values closer to NAVD88 using RTX as opposed to using OPUS. The xy values are generally a few hundreths.
Quite bluntly, I have not observed the verticals...with javad yet. My procedures for verts, are to go hit monail rivets, in the old RR bed, and work from that, as local elevs. I did do some of this with my old gear... I held the local elevs, due to my analysis of the cors stations, and higher than desired rms values.
And, i quit doing elev certs, when the new "form 1040 elev certs" became standard.
So, i don't have current info on that.
N
Ps, I probably should...though
Let's not forget that with the Javad LS you get an OPUS-style report back from your DPOS processed base. It's very helpful in making the transition from OPUS to DPOS because the reports look very similar.
There are 2 facts about the Javad LS, that should be obvious, get lost in the details.
1.) it can take shots, where nothing else can. With an automated built in quality check. This part alone, tips the scales, real far, in the javad's direction.
2.) Many of the controls are sort of hidden. A bit of regular assistance, is needed, to learn, and to keep learning.
Number 1.) above is so good, that number 2 above is worth it.
Or, another way to say it, is that it saves you enough time, with item 1.) above, that you will have time for number 2.) above.
It is a product in development.... And probably will be for a long time. But, as it matures, development will slow, and stabilize.
I want them to put a 360?ø scanner, on a small rod underneath it. Take a shot, make a scan. And you've covered quite an area, with topo cloud.
But, that's what keeps 'em busy!
N
