Hello all!
I have been watching this site for a few months now and am reaching out to the community for some advice in a future in a land surveying career.
I am one year out from graduating college with a Civil Engineering Technologist Degree.
I have worked with the City of Oshawa surveying department for the last three summers and have enjoyed the work and have been asked to return again this summer.
The city does nothing survey wise for legal property matters. Our job is usually more construction based. Such as preparing and checking grade sheets and construction layouts as well as verifying construction drawing details and assisting in confirming all types of survey calculations; investigating, preparing and summarizing details obtained in pre-engineering reports; measuring, verifying and confirming details in final “as constructed" drawings; operating, maintaining, repairing and adjusting survey instruments and equipment; undertaking tasks such as clearing line, chaining, driving stakes, rodding and leveling. Completely proficient with a total station and basic survey practice. I love being outside and can not imagine working from behind a desk
My ideal job is to work for a government or rail industry in surveying. I do not care where the job takes me, I would love to work internationally.
Here is where the question comes in.
Is it usually preferable for someone who would like to eventually be a "Legal" surveyor to go back to school for more time, or is on the job experience the better way to go? I currently have the education to apply, I just need the experience, or is it hard to find a job without that extra schooling. I am always checking for jobs in those industries and still apply even though I may not be qualified.
Basically, what does your experience tell you?
My mother always asks why I want my OLS ( Ontario Land Surveyor) and I respond, I am tired of doing the same work that a professional can do, with the exact same accuracy and not have my name on it.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Steven Gill
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
That is the city job that I would one day like, and have been offered if I can finish my schooling online.
If you have the opportunity to get a degree in survey and mapping, by all means, do it. Not everyone has one, and not every state requires one, but that could change. Experience is definitely a huge part of becoming a professional land surveyor, but the experience is not a substitute for education, nor is education a substitute for experience.
If you kind of like construction surveying you will absolutely love boundary work....or at least that's what my experience tells me. 😉
Go for the degree. You sound like you are in a good position job wise at the moment. The survey degree gives you many more options in the future. You can get experience later, sounds like you are getting some already.
You can always get experience later, it is very hard to go back to school once you have a career, wife, kids, mortgage, and the rest of real life.
Don't be a fool, stay in school.
:good: :good:
In my mind that is like asking if water or air is more critical to living a good life.
Education without experience, or experience without education will kill you.
It sounds like you are making every effort to grow in both areas. Hear is one opinion that says you can never get enough of either but it is very common to not get the proper balance.
Professionalism is about the evaluation of the product as much or more than it is about the ability to measure the data precisely.
It would seem to me that you are already qualified for that job. Instead of "worked the last three summers" put "worked for since 2010". My opinion is that the job is entry level and the qualification requirements are to weed out the burger flippers. GO FOR IT!
Both.
Schooling can accelerate your career in a way that the majority of experience will not. For all the hoopla made about mentoring, the majority of employers will train the minimum amount needed to get the job done.
Like it or not you will be getting experience until you die, retire or escape.
You'll benefit far more from the experience having the education under your belt. Education is the foundation to build upon with experience.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
There's no doubt you need them both, my suggestion would be to get the Degree and then get as much "varied" experience as you can. Don't let others pigeon hole you or try to define what a Professional is, soon enough, you'll have enough experience to cut through most of the BS yourself. Surveying is a very broad field with an infinite amount of opportunities, if you hang in there you'll eventually be creating your own.
Cheers and Good Luck
Ralph
"Like it or not you will be getting experience until you die, retire or escape."
I'm still waiting to get beamed up...
A heavy dose of both.
and never stop..
taking in both!
Steven-
These are the proposed choices amending O.Reg 1026 in Ontario:
6. (1) Subsection 23 (3) of the Regulation is revoked and the following substituted:
(3) An applicant for a term of articles must provide proof of,
(a) successful completion of a program at the baccalaureat level in professional surveying approved by the Academic and Experience Requirements Committee;
(b) successful completion of a program that, in the opinion of the Academic and Experience Requirements Committee, is equivalent in content and level of difficulty to a program approved under clause (a); or
(c) experience or knowledge or a combination thereof that, in the opinion of the Academic and Experience Requirements Committee, provides equivalent competencies to a program approved under clause (a).
I'd be willing to try and answer your questions if you'd wish.
My E-mail is good as set out.
Cheers,
Derek
As many have said, both are important, but at the current point you are in with your career, I would definitely recommend pursuing your degree. I don't know the law in Canada, but many states in the U.S. have gone to a 4-year degree requirement for licensure. Whether or not you agree with this requirement, I believe it is only a matter of time until all states adopt it, and I susupect Canadian laws are similar. If you truly want to advance your career, which it sounds like you do, you will need to become licensed, so it only makes sense to get the degree.
I don't have a degree and I've been fortunate enough to become licensed in 4 states, but there are other states near me where I cannot become licensed, so it is a hinderance for me. Even though I don't have a degree I believe it will be good for the profession in the future and it is possible that I may still pursue a degree.
Good Luck!
Since Experience is a form of Schooling; I submit that schooling is the most important. Note that schooling is a collection of book learning AND experience that is a continuous lifelong effort.
Thanks to all that have replied. It is interesting to see the responses. I am one of those people who don't mind working hard each day, my only goal is not to become a topo monkey, I hate those things sometimes.
I will most likely finish out school and not apply for the job. Hopefully the person that they hire instead of me wont last long. The last hire for that position lasted three weeks, so fingers crossed.
Still with my sights set high hopefully OLS status will be achieved one day.
Anyone want to offer me a job next April?:-P 😀
Thanks!
Steven Gill
Steve, Fill Us In On Canadian Education
When I saw the $60-65,000 starting salary I thought that was high for an Associates degree. Then I found Seneca College, Toronto, and saw that a technologist was a 3 year degree. Two years being a technician.
Loyalist has a 2 year Surveying Technician program. Are you there and have taken that course. If you graduate from Loyalist I see a technologist has an easy transfer to Griffith University, Australia or Lakehead University, Thunder Bay for a Bachelor of Engineering in regular Civil Engineering. I saw no surveying. One could also transfer to McMaster University, Hamilton for a Bachelor of Technology, again in Civil.
Where college are you attending?
Does Canada have a program similar to NCEES (National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying) for engineering and surveying testing?
The first thing beyond a technician I see in Canada is the University of New Brunswick with a 3 year Bachelor of Geomatics and a 4 year Bachelor of Science in Geomatics Engineering. I am cheking out the University of Calgary degree in Geomatics Engineering. There is also a Bachelor of Technology in Geomatics Program at the British Columbia Institute of Technology.
Paul in PA
Steve, Fill Us In On Canadian Education
> When I saw the $60-65,000 starting salary I thought that was high for an Associates degree. Then I found Seneca College, Toronto, and saw that a technologist was a 3 year degree. Two years being a technician.
>
> Loyalist has a 2 year Surveying Technician program. Are you there and have taken that course. If you graduate from Loyalist I see a technologist has an easy transfer to Griffith University, Australia or Lakehead University, Thunder Bay for a Bachelor of Engineering in regular Civil Engineering. I saw no surveying. One could also transfer to McMaster University, Hamilton for a Bachelor of Technology, again in Civil.
>
> Where college are you attending?
>
> Does Canada have a program similar to NCEES (National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying) for engineering and surveying testing?
>
> Paul in PA
Hi Paul.
I am currently attending St. Lawrence College in Kingston Ontario. I do not have a two year degree option with my program ( Hindsight is always 20/20) we have had three surveying courses and a whole survey camp that lasted over a week and contained various surveying exercises. In Ontario Canada I will graduate with an advanced diploma. I can also get my OACETT (Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and technologists)certification ( Basically a P.Eng for Civil guys). Also its noteworthy that in the states "College" is usually grouped together meaning both "College or University" where as in Canada, College and University are often expressed differently. University is always the higher education option, usually 4+ year programs, where as college is 2,3 years.
This is enough education for the position, but granted it is not as good as a solid two year program such that is offered at Loyalist. As for going to university I have no immediate plans to do so, unless I am unable to find employment, or unable to obtain my OLS, but upon talking to another member it seems like I shouldn't need to. I am one of those guys who really does not enjoy school too much, but I am a good student. I can't wait to get out into the working world.
I should also point out that Oshawa is a fairly large city, and as a student I was making just over 20$ an hour in my summer position with a raise every year, so this salary is not a surprise.
Anyways here is the link to my program; one of the tabs offers the course layout.
http://www.stlawrencecollege.ca/index.aspx?iPageID=139&iMenuID=6&progId=551
Thanks, let me know if you wish for any further clarification.
Steven Gill