What would you want a student (Civil Eng. Tech.) to know about surveying from two semesters at a Community College?
Should they be taught old school (field books, chains, etc) or focus mainly on latest technology that we have (robotic TS, Data collectors, etc)?
For first timers, what error would you expect from a level loop (+/-2,500 lf loop)?
What error would you allow before sending them out to find the error?
Setup instrument?
Collect/transfer data?
Cut line (a must for newbies)?
Run level loops?
Construction staking?
Boundary layout?
Lidar?
Machine control?
Scanning?
Thanks for any constructive thoughts. I will let my students read the responses.
Thad
For first timers, what error would you expect from a level loop (+/-2,500 lf loop)?
Depends entirely on the equipment and your instruction. With a low end auto level I would be looking for 0.03' or better.
They are low-end and old (anyone like to donate used equipment?) 😉
Last year all groups (5) were <0.05' but that was my first experience. The first group this semester is 0.24'. They will be back out tomorrow to find the errors.
The instruction is excellent!!! 😉
> Setup instrument?
> Collect/transfer data?
> Cut line (a must for newbies)?
> Run level loops?
> Construction staking?
> Boundary layout?
> Lidar?
> Machine control?
> Scanning?
Given the stated time constraints - I wouldn't spend much time on chaining and such, but the concepts should be touched on. Perhaps one lecture to introduce various historic equipment and techniques.
Most any teenager will pick up on the technology of setting up, running an instrument, and downloading way faster than you imagine. Lesson 2 should be setting up a tripod over a point. Its bound to be the first thing they do at the site on the first day on the job. Being able to do that will get them off on the right foot.
Cutting line is what interships are for. Forget it as a class exercise.
Running levels? Absolutely. A dying art. I'm regularly reminded how many educated and experienced hands haven't a clue how to run levels.
For topo, you might consider exercises on the plane table before (or if ) you graduate to the TS.
Layout, boundary and construction. Basically the same thing when reduced to their simplest elements.
Add control surveying and adjustments, datums and state plane concepts, GPS.
Lidar, machine control, scanning are probably for a higher level course. Perhaps yu round out the experience with a final lecture on technologies of the future. BTW, I'm not altogether convinced that scanning is here to stay for the average surveyor. Niche market, maybe, IMO.
Sounds like 0.04' closure with a 0.2' bust, doesn't it?
I would expect them to be proficient using the latest technology (dc, total station and GPS at a minimum) with a basic knowledge of the principles behind the technology. Know how to close a traverse, run a level loop and check for blunders/errors.
As for the line cutting, I figure they will get enough of that once they hit the field for real. You don't want to scare them off too quick. 😛
A basic knowledge of computers is a necessity too. It does me no good for a crew to collect data and then not be able to send it to me via a simple email when they get to the hotel that evening.
Take them out to some roadkill on the road and let them realize that "That" could be them on the jobsite, if they don't pay attention.....
I am a graduate of a two year Civil Technologist program which included either two or three semesters of surveying.
Day 1 was getting used to judging distances by pacing. We laid out a 30m tape and walked it several times each to know how many steps it would take. To pass that days class we had to pace out 50m along a line and then be able to pick up a coin within one step.
Other classes I can remember included:
- Running a time limited level loop and reducing it to achieve the required closure.
- How to book level and traverse notes.
- Setting up and leveling an instrument.
- How to run a peg test.
- How to check collimation, and other instrument checks.
- Checking and adjusting a pogo bubble and a tribrach.
- How to write a layout stake - what should be on various types of stakes.
- How to write up a cut sheet.
- Creating a small contour map by hand interpolation of a topo survey.
- Theory and calculation of volumes using end area and prismoidal method.
- Basic theory and calculation of least squares, compass rule, and other adjustment methods - much less of this than the survey technology students but enough to understand the basics.
- Calculation of curves, spirals etc. Civil techs will also be learning these as part of other classes so the survey course doesn't need to cover this in detail. The same applies to drainage design or other engineering topics.
We didn't do anything with computers or GPS back then but I would expect a current student to learn how to set up, run and process a static and RTK session. They should also be reasonably comfortable with using a data collector to gather data and do basic layout.
If they are low end and old, it's up to you to show them how to adjust them and use them. Hundred year old levels can close a 2400' loop within 0.03' easily.
If they cannot do a peg test and adjustment, you can't send them out for any useful level work.
> I am a graduate of a two year Civil Technologist program which included either two or three semesters of surveying.
Steve, I'm guessing you mean BCIT, and I'm a graduate of that same program. But, in 1982, the survey class was weak. The worst part of the whole program. The instructor was senile, no joke. But here I am.
To this day, I do not know the answer to Final Exam question 1 - "Give three differences required in a level." Luckily for me, no one else did either.
What a long, strange road it's been.
Hello Mark - I didn't recognize your new handle.
I graduated in '94. The survey instructors I had were OK. I was able to get a job on an engineering survey crew after grad and I've been involved in that part of the Civil field ever since.
Good luck teaching gen Y anything. You should go ahead and fill out everyones certificate now, complete with gold stars and start planning the parade. Go ahead and take the "bar" and take it to their houses and just pass it under their beds while they are sleeping. Maybe go ahead and sign them to a long term contract for 100k/yr while your there.
Grumpy old gen x'er
First thing they should be taught is that after 2 classes in surveying they don't know everything and they don't know more that someone that has been surveying for 30 years.
JP
For the teaching aspect, you can't beat 3-wire levels. It provides analytical data that is good for pointing out the importance of balanced shots and almost always points to the bad shot(s), or areas of bad work. Instructing "Do it again." in a class environment may be missing a good teaching opportunity. JMHO
They need to know what goes into a useful product.
If you can survey with a string, measuring tape and fieldbook you can figure out which buttons to press pretty quick on modern equipment.
Field Notes and sketches!!!!!!! (and cameras)
Pacing, Taping,
levels,(I agree that 0.24' is a bust somewhere but 0.01' per setup might be okay for rookies)
station and offset,
profile and cross section
Dimensioning buildings
Turning sets of angles
Traverse and close
small topo (booking the angles and distances and plotting the contours by hand is irreplaceable and makes learning it in CAD much easier)
Stakeout
Boundary
If time permits and you have the equipment- data collection, reflectorless and robotic...et al are fine after you have a clue.
Too many people learn the high tech first and don't know why the surveys they do suck. It's because you needed a hundred shots, got two hundred, but are missing twenty of the most important ones.
What you listed is essentially the current CivEnggTech Surveying I/II curriculum here in Edmonton at NAIT, albeit with a couple things missing that should have been there, such as pacing, and a couple things added such as 1 class of GPS...