As technologies and economics are changing, I think we need to adapt our mentoring methods to the reality of our times. That is easier said than done. We need to look at things from their set of eyes. This requires and open mind and a willingness to say: "Maybe the method that I have been using for years is not the best way to go about it".
Let's adapt to our times and be the best mentors we can be. I try to use the PPNN method. Positive-People, Negative-Neutral:
PP
"Steve, you did a very good job staked out those lots, I like what I saw, nice big lettering, very clear and easy to read".
(Positive, put a spotlight on, let that person shine)
NN
"That stakeout out job, I think we should look into ways to improve the way we present the information. Maybe a guy could use larger letters, what do you think (Negative, join with the person, don't use name, don't leave alone)
...And finally...One thing that I notice with the folks from the young generation, they really like to be told that they are doing a good job. So tell them often!
Mentoring Ain't Gonna Happen
Since they think they know everything and it is not required by state law, you think they will somehow voluntarily ask for real help?
Paul in PA
Mentoring Ain't Gonna Happen
Thank you. Your comment is the root of our problem, attitude of the old crowd.
I Am Talking Attitude Of The New Crowd
"Read my lips."
Paul in OA
Personally I don't know anybody with the patience to "mentor" a coordinate cowboy cowperson. If I were to attempt it I would chose a 24oz. framing hammer as my favorite tool.
But if it would make anybody feel better, they are truly sorry.
I Am Talking Attitude Of The New Crowd
The same thing has been going on since time immemorial...
"In my times Bart, young people did not call old people by their first names"
"Well, this is my time, George!"
(Bart Simpson & George Bush episode)
> Personally I don't know anybody with the patience to "mentor" a coordinate cowboy cowperson. If I were to attempt it I would chose a 24oz. framing hammer as my favorite tool.
That's the irony...they had to learn from somewhere, probably one of us, monkey see, monkey do...
I Am Not Your Firend. I Am Your Father, Boss, Professor
etc. ad nauseum.
I you do not respect others, why should anyone respect you.
One earns respect, you do not get it for just showing up.
Just wait for the Common Core Survey Exam.
Paul in PA
I Am Not Your Firend. I Am Your Father, Boss, Professor
I'm more or less with James on this one. The "my way or the highway" line should be used sparingly and for emphasis only. It will get you sullen conformance in the short run, at best. In the medium to long run positive reinforcement is much more effective.
I have found in my time in OK that most staff have a strong desire to improve their practice, but I must first convince them that I have both solid reasoning and their best interest in mind. They have, I suppose, seen too many carpetbaggers who swoop in to teach Okies how it should be done.
These attitudes are nothing new. You should read up on the experience of Baron von Steuben, who came from the Prussian general staff to teach George Washington's Continentals how to be soldiers at Valley Forge. He was not accustomed to explaining to Prussian recruits why things needed to be done a certain way. He found that Americans sullenly refused to comply, even under the lash, until the reasoning was explained. Once they had that, they went at it with a will and even proposed useful improvements.
I Expect Respect Because I Am In Charge
I do not mind explaining the Why. But yes, without respect, you are down he highway.
Years ago I was helping out a firm and was working with a young underling. Since he knew the highways better, I let him drive and I reviewed the next job or coordinated it in the data collector. Having noticed the truck vehicle swerving as we went down the road I quickly connected it to the cell phone conversations with his girlfriend. I brought it up with the owners and they emphasized no more talking and driving. A few days later we are going to a job and I notice the vehicle swerving as I heard clicking. He was instead texting. He had heard the bosses request but had no understanding of the Why.
Paul in PA
I Expect Respect Because I Am In Charge
>... He was instead texting. He had heard the bosses request but had no understanding of the Why...
An ultimatum was issued without explanation and you got sullen conformance to the letter. My point, exactly.
I Expect Respect Because I Am In Charge
> Years ago I was helping out a firm and was working with a young underling. Since he knew the highways better, I let him drive and I reviewed the next job or coordinated it in the data collector. Having noticed the truck vehicle swerving as we went down the road I quickly connected it to the cell phone conversations
I guess there was not much harmony in the cockpit...one guy focused on his data collector and the other guy busing talking to his GF...
Next time, you guys talk to each other. You both will come out winners. Just saying, don't take it personal. Surveying is only part of the job.
This is an extremely interesting topic for me -- I teach mathematics to teen-agers, the folks who will populate STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) jobs in the future. I have excellent students, middle-ground students, and mathematical basket cases, so I pretty much see what you are dealing with, but I see it earlier.
Electronics have been a part of these folks lives since their births. They don't ask why a smart phone works, they just know how to make it work. Ditto for calculators, computers, auto GPS; you name it. Operational principles are meaningless, it's just the result that counts. And they accept any answer that a calculator produces and argue that it must be right.
My math degree was earned before calculators were invented, so, yes, it frustrates me when I have to deal with that attitude. But the good ones are very teachable and often become fascinated with the connection between the mathematical theory and the results from a calculator.
I don't have a prescription, but I do know that my lessons work best when they are carefully planned and patiently delivered. Hard questioning of students during lesson delivery makes them think and often generates interest in a deeper understanding. And you'd better believe that they question me throughout.
None of us, teachers nor practitioners, has the time to mentor perfectly. But we both can see the questions that students or mentees should answer as they set about their tasks. I'll bet that your old mentor followed a similar path.
I Expect Respect Because I Am In Charge
There is an actual memo that says "my way or the highway", I've seen it, heard it and have been given it before.
I've told people that before so they would understand the importance of what I've ask and expect of them on the job.
It is not the first card played and sometimes it is not the last card played.
I've personally made every attempt with helpers and trainees to get them to understand that everything is not learned in a textbook or from the one behind lecture podium.
Just because you learned it that way, does not mean that is the only way to do it.
If you can't find it, don't fabricate anything. Go out and look for more evidence.
I've been told by helpers that they would not work with anyone in the field except me or that they would not set any monuments without me being there.
One IMan actually told me that the way I was keeping notes was illegal. His legal way was not understandable or repeatable even by him.
Anyone's "TRUST ME" attitude is not welcome, put it in writing.
At some point a person develops their way of doing and documenting their work.
That is what they expect everyone working for them to do.
Any changes are noted and until I say otherwise, this is how we do this.
At some point a person develops their way of doing and documenting their work.
That is what they expect everyone working for them to do.
B-)
> Electronics have been a part of these folks lives since their births. They don't ask why a smart phone works.. Ditto for calculators, computers, auto GPS...they accept any answer that a calculator produces and argue that it must be right.
I don't think that you can attribute this effect solely to the current generation. I recall reading of studies in the early 1980's - when I was a math student and calculators were still a new thing - of people who where given purposely jimmied calculators to do simple math, and failing to notice absurd results.
I Expect Respect Because I Am In Charge
> There is an actual memo that says "my way or the highway", I've seen it, heard it and have been given it before.
Possibly you are referring to these beauties, or not, but they are classics.
I don't necessarily see math as a problem
As a matter of fact, the mathematics of plane geometry is probably the only glue that binds me to my younger employees. Science (at least mathematics) is not a function of opinion, hunch or heart. At my organization basic coordinate geometry is understood by even the newest and youngest member.
What I see as a problem is their lack of desire to look any more than a 2' radius around their calculated "look" point. And when I get notes back that relate "Set I.P. 4.5' w of corner post" my first question is "did you look around the post?"..."We tried but the pin-finder wouldn't work around the fence" is the WRONG answer. When I visit the site I better see large recently excavated holes around anything that the pin-finder "won't work around".
The worst fear my guys have is when I take a shovel and pin-finder out on one of their jobs....I better not find anything...:pinch:
Seriously the biggest problem I have is keeping someone humble that has learned his way around a Cartesian plane. There is so much more to it than that. I have been in the field almost 50 years and I'm still learning. If I can get one of out five employees to use senses other than their eye-to-button-punch I'm good.
I don't necessarily see math as a problem
:good:
Well said.
It's not just "our" problem; I'd guess that in any field, at least 75% of the management has no idea how to be a leader.
I don't necessarily see math as a problem
> If I can get one of out five employees to use senses other than their eye-to-button-punch I'm good.
Next opening, interview five times as many candidates before you pick the best one 😉
