Fundamentals of Surveying Exam

Williwaw, post: 340492, member: 7066 wrote: When I took this, programmable calculators were expressly forbidden but formula cheat sheets were not.

Good point. Please be cautious of the calculator you chose and make sure it is approved by the board for use. The HP48GX was allowed but w/ out the template. The HP33S and HP35S are both approved. And as someone else mentioned, go with what you are comfortable with. If TI is your weapon, practice with it and be comfortable and efficient with all of its capabilities. I was trained with HPs and felt very comfortable using them.

:good:
They got a good laugh when I asked if my TI-35 was approved.

That's funny! When I took it, I took a 48 with full blown TDS, another with full blown SMI, and an HP 42S. I used the 42 more than anything.

When my guys have taken it, they could use a 33 with programs. Now it's the 35 and I don't know about programs.

I was twisted that my dad didn't have TDS and a 48 in the 70's when he took the equivalent of this exam. So I studied until I could do it will formulas and not rely on the programs.

I wouldn't sign off for my guys until they could crank the 3 pt. out longhand. None of them had a problem with the exam. 🙂

Interesting! Did/do you find being a surveyor to be more lucrative or more rewarding (or both) than being a stockbroker/finance guy? I just find your above story to be a fascinating and unusual mix of skills.

I had my HP48 with SMI for the FS and PS. There was another fellow at the FS with a HUSKY.

Had I been permitted to use a 48 with a cogo card, I likely wouldn't have busted my a$$ practicing everything long hand using my vintage TI-35 and just as likely wouldn't have passed on the first go around.

You have to know how to do it long hand and I do but I am just so dang slow I dont think I would have been able to get finished with the FS exam. I only used my calculator a few times on the PS exam. I passed both tests the first time using the HP 33 with a few programs and a bunch of equations programmed in, even conversions and simple stuff.

I had it for those tests. I don't recall using it a lot. There were only a few questions that needed any math beyond adding and subtracting.

1987 Texas Exam they allowed only certain scientific calculators that were not able to be programed.
The test monitors collected several shoeboxes of non legal calculators and a couple of very large office desktop models with long extension cords among approximately 400 test takers.
I used two Sharp EL506 pocket calculators valued at $35 each that would keep up with two memory values each and had a rectangular to polar function.
The only way to be certain you are ready is to be prepared to do everything long handed if necessary.
There are some NCEES approved programmed HP35 advertised for around $165 on the internet.
B-)

I went into the advisor training program at Morgan Stanley during the recession when there weren't any decent paying survey positions around here. I really enjoyed the portfolio building and security evaluation part of the job, but after six months or so the amount of lying I was expected to do on the sales side got to me.

FWIW - before I started surveying at 25 I worked for a political consulting firm after college and quit for the same reason. Surveying may not be the most lucrative of professions, but at least you are expected to be honest.

Similar story to my own as I spent a good ten years as securities and commodities broker before waking up to the fact I was living a lie and worse, beginning to believe my own BS, before burning out in the most spectacular fashion. I found it to be an industry where you need to check your morals at the door and the art of manipulating people becomes second nature. Funny though how many of those lesson I learned still pay. The big payoffs are far fewer but I like the guy in the mirror a lot more these days.

I bought my HP35S for $49 on Amazon and programmed it myself on a Saturday. The functionality and key positioning of the 35 is more comparable to the 32S. The 33 was a departure and I always struggled to get used to where the buttons were. The 35 is much easier to program than the 33 IMO. And by doing so, your working the equations as you input them. It's important to understand the mechanics of each program and or equation your using.

Or, you can just buy the calculator and program book and do it yourself. That way you may gain some knowledge of what it is doing and how to program the calculator.

I had a programmed HP35s for both the FS and PS, touched it maybe once for the PS but it helped me blaze through and also check my answers on the FS. I believe the banned calculators now are ones that can store text and/or communicate with other calculators.

If you've taken the exam, and especially looked @ the NCEES practice exam, you should know the areas you're weak in. You can't memorize one of the hard questions, but you can know that you are weak in that area, and you might especially study that area. (for instance knowing that you need to work on understanding statistics. Sometimes you just don't know the terminology, or the mathematical "ruile")

When I was studying for my exam, I would read out of one of those books suggested, and to take a break I would work on problems. I consider them fun, like puzzles. Instead of doing the crossword, it would be puzzle-time. You need to work on that sort of logical thinking muscle. Get to know whatever calculator you are going to use for the exam very well. You don't want to sped your time hunting for the cos key. I am not a fan of programs (personally) it is more fun to figure them out and train your brain to work it out.

Some minor advice. Good luck. Listen to all the smart guys the posted above.

summerprophet, post: 340147, member: 8874 wrote: The FS examination is strongly weighted towards the math side of surveying. Get your math skills up to speed and then spend the hours and hours to properly program your calculator in any of the available survey specific programs.

Rather than a math question slowing you down, they should all be gimme questions, allowing you more time for the non-math questions.

You have already sat for the exam twice. Did you write down all the questions you weren't sure about immediately after walking out of the exam? Do you still have the response letter stating what areas you did poorly on? All of these are valuable resources to determine your direction of study.

Also, if you are writing the October exam, NOW is not the time to be asking these questions. Allow yourself 4 months of study, 4 nights a week, with the last 2 weeks just reviewing everything again. Tedious and boring, but it gets the job done.

Best of luck, I don't do well on tests either.

Really?

My FS exam had almost no math. Maybe 5 problems involved math.

Mostly definitions

Whatever calculator you are using for the exam you should be using for work for a least the year prior. Do not use a fully programmed calculator at work and expect to pick up an approved calculator for the exam day and expect to be productive.

I have been using HP calculators since 1972 and still have that original HP 35 on my desk, just have to plug the charger in. I used an HP 10 for the FS and PS. My son bought the newer HP 35 for the PE 4 years go. After he passed he gave it to me since he prefers TIs. Two years ago I dropped my HP 10 and zonked the display. I am still getting used to the new HP 35, and have to pause and read the keys when converting å¡ ' ".

Paul in PA

In my opinion, 'programmed' calculators are way overrated. Instead is spending valuable time programming, you are better off putting that time towards other things.

I took the exam in April and there was basically no math. Maybe 5-6 problems. All of which was basic math.

If you know basics then you are fine. Cosine of bearing times the distance gives u the change in North and sine times distance for east.

Then know how circles work and do some of those problems to get used to figuring out how to solve your way around the geometry. Something the calculator won't do anyway.

Then three time savers to remember are the easy formulas for the chord, tangent and length. But they are in the reference given anyway.

That's all the math you will see. If you have the 1000 questions by PPI don't even get into the 'advanced math' it's a waste.

Put your time and effort into the other topics. You will be thankful you did.

Maybe the exam has changed but I remember using my programmed calculator ALOT for the FS in 2012.

I took it in 2011 and it was probably close to 60% math from what I remember... Apparently it's different now.

I took the FS exam in October of 2003 and I recall using some of my programs (and I had a plethora of them in my HP48, last exam where said calculators were OK) but I honestly expected a much greater usage of them. Of course, this was a long time ago and the exam has likely changed/evolved considerably. But knowing the math/geometry basics is probably of much greater benefit.