I fully support those who resist the foolishness perpetuated by state societies demanding such restrictive circumstances. Those of you lower on the totem pole of power within those societies need to oust the self-serving who seem to always float near the top of the totem pole. A fellow I worked with years ago summed up this type of behavior as "money talks and BS walks", only he used all of the letters instead of just BS.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416207, member: 12531 wrote: Sorry, again late to the show on this one but just could not resist chiming in. Really, this is the funniest thing that I have read here yet. Florida CEU providers are an illegal cartel?! I have got to catch your stand up act at the comedy store some time.
You are basically blaming others for a problem that you yourself created. It is clearly stated in 5J-17.044 Obligations of Continuing Education Providers that Continuing education providers must identify in advertisements and on certificates of completion whether the offered continuing education course has been approved for general continuing education credit, laws and rules continuing education credit, Standards of Practice continuing education credit, or a combination of Standards of Practice and laws and rules continuing education credit.
So here is a hint. The next time that you want to take a course for Florida CEU credit read the course advertisement first. If it does not say that the course has been approved by the Florida Board, DO NOT TAKE IT.
The error in my ways was assuming that a continuing education course with the same fricking name, given by the same fricken organization, and with the same fricken instructor as one already approved would also be approved. It is an absolute joke that Gary Kent can teach a course on the ALTA standards in Kentucky, and 2 weeks later teach the EXACT SAME COURSE in Florida, and the Florida course is the only one that the board will award credit for. I'm licensed in 7 other states, and every one of them accepted the Kentucky course. Andrew Ellicott could be brought back to life to teach a seminar on the running of the boundary between the United States and Spanish Florida, and the Florida surveyor's board will tell him to go pound sand, because he hadn't paid his bribe money.
So yes, the Florida CEU providers are basically a cartel. They use their influence to make it very expensive for anyone out of state to comply with their requirements. If you want to get credit, you have to get a provider that has already paid their bribe money. No bribe money, no credit.
However, none of this is my problem anymore. In less than 3 hours, my license will be retired, and I say good riddance.
Andy J, post: 416244, member: 44 wrote: Tommy, did you get your credits in???
Nope. I gave up. I hate that I didn't get to do a single survey in the 8 years I was licensed, but it's just not worth it.
Tommy Young, post: 416290, member: 703 wrote: However, none of this is my problem anymore. In less than 3 hours, my license will be retired, and I say good riddance.
Well, I feel better knowing that. Enjoy your retirement while wearing your tin foil hat and keeping a lookout for those pesky black helicopters...
And don't forget to update your avatar.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416309, member: 12531 wrote: Well, I feel better knowing that. Enjoy your retirement while wearing your tin foil hat and keeping a lookout for those pesky black helicopters...
And don't forget to update your avatar.
Well...that was helpful.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416211, member: 12531 wrote: It is like I mentioned before. At one time once a provider was Board approved they could basically put on any type of course that they wanted to. And it got to the point that you mentioned. Lots of ridiculously bad and unhelpful stuff was being offered up as continuing education. Out of state companies were getting set up as CEU providers and offering up garbage courses to make a quick buck. I guess the only way the Board could put a stop to it was to approve every course submitted by a provider. But what it really comes down to is what the state society wants done. They are the biggest provider of CEU education here and the Board is just a state society puppet so the Board will do what ever the state society wants.
I'm not licensed in FL, but have similar issues with another state. As said, I don't know what goes on there, but when I have a couple states accepting courses/seminars, but then this other state doesn't, the sole reason being that it's not on their list, then to me, that's a load of BS.
I haven't seen, "Lots of ridiculously bad and unhelpful stuff was being offered up as continuing education. Out of state companies were getting set up as CEU providers and offering up garbage courses to make a quick buck." And if I understand Tommy's situation, this wasn't the case. It was FL not accepting a valid and appropriate course being offered by another state society. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog, and it's ridiculous that these Boards and their employees are blindly sticking to a set of rules without really understanding the intent and reason for those rules.
If it weren't for the silliness promoted by state land surveyor societies lead by people out for themselves only there would be a national registry to which continuing educators could apply for certification of their programs. Instead, we continue to have chaos screwing up our lives.
Holy Cow, post: 416323, member: 50 wrote: If it weren't for the silliness promoted by state land surveyor societies lead by people out for themselves only there would be a national registry to which continuing educators could apply for certification of their programs. Instead, we continue to have chaos screwing up our lives.
whoever you are and wherever you are at continues to be a mystery... but out here in the West those "state land surveyor societies" are not the same as the "board of registration". maybe you have a situation where they are the same, but not here.
put the blame where it belongs.
I know nothing about Florida or why the surveyors there seem to accept that system.
Our board has engineers, architects, landscape architects, geologists and land surveyors. Hence, land surveyors are a minority, as are each of the other professions. The rule of thumb is that they turn to the state societies for each profession for guidance and recommendations on a bit of everything. Also, tradition holds that board members are current or former leaders of the state society. Thus, what you get is largely controlled by the state society.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416309, member: 12531 wrote: Well, I feel better knowing that. Enjoy your retirement while wearing your tin foil hat and keeping a lookout for those pesky black helicopters...
And don't forget to update your avatar.
Retirement? Who said anything about retirement? I've got at least 30 years left in me.
As far as my avatar goes, I think I'll leave it, along with my certificate on the wall. What are they going to do, put me in surveyor jail?
Tommy Young, post: 416290, member: 703 wrote: The error in my ways was assuming that a continuing education course with the same fricking name, given by the same fricken organization, and with the same fricken instructor as one already approved would also be approved. It is an absolute joke that Gary Kent can teach a course on the ALTA standards in Kentucky, and 2 weeks later teach the EXACT SAME COURSE in Florida, and the Florida course is the only one that the board will award credit for.
Apparently Nudge thinks this is appropriate.
Tommy Young, post: 416334, member: 703 wrote: Apparently Nudge thinks this is appropriate.
he is probably one of those "exclusive vendors"... protecting his captive market
Arthur Nudge, post: 416309, member: 12531 wrote: Well, I feel better knowing that. Enjoy your retirement while wearing your tin foil hat and keeping a lookout for those pesky black helicopters...
And don't forget to update your avatar.
Weeeeww Doggies!
It only took you six posts here to hurl an ad hominem attack on a poster because you didn't find their arguement justified based on a appropriate word that he used.
It's too bad because you demonstrated such excellent copy/paste and text formatting talent in your prior posts.
Too bad that you couldn't have provided some input and insight about the process that FL uses to select CEU courses and instructers. Who is empaneled to select? Cost and time frame etc. This should be all available to the public. Maybe someone should solicit someone in the Sunhine state under sunshine laws using your comments here as a foundation for disclosure. There a lot of retired folk
down there looking for something to do.
"There's more than one way to skin a cat, but there ain't no way to make the cat enjoy it." Jed Clampett
Apparently this Arthur Nudge character is some sort of sock puppet, because no one by that name has a license in the state of Florida.
Tommy Young, post: 416363, member: 703 wrote: Apparently this Arthur Nudge character is some sort of sock puppet, because no one by that name has a license in the state of Florida.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_Nudge
Tommy Young, post: 407532, member: 703 wrote: Well, the latest update is a received an email from someone on the board staff with a title of "Government Analyst I" that told me I would not receive credit for the class on ALTA standards taught by Gary Kent because the Kentucky Association of Professional Surveyors is not an approved continuing education provider and the class was not pre-approved. For what it's worth, Gary taught the exact same class a month or so later in Florida and I'm sure no one that attended will have any problem receiving credit.
This is nothing more than a racket designed to protect an illegal cartel. This doesn't have a single thing to do with educating surveyors, it's about making people money.
Some might say the surveying profession itself is an illegal cartel.
After all, look at the many folks who want to survey their own property.
My advice, FWIW, is that when you take on a project in Florida, add some $$$ to your fee to cover that CEU threshold you need to hit.
I think I may have posted here before, if you are willing to travel to Florida to make money, you should be willing to travel to Florida to comply with their CEU standards...otherwise, why obtain the license in the first place?
Florida surveyors and mappers are licensed by the state. We recently moved under the auspices of the Dept. of Ag and Consumer Services. They control who is allowed to offer CEU's. There is a state association, FSMS.org. but you do not have to belong to it. You do not have to use their content providers to get your CEU's. There is no cartel. sheeesh.
Here's the link.. I notice that some of the hyper links are broken. but you get the idea.
Here is the list of CEU providers as of today..
https://sunoas.doacs.state.fl.us/reports/_conserv/PSAM_PROVIDERS.jsp?cmdkey=docsrep
And here is the list of classes that are accepted Sure looks like plenty to choose from to get a few hours in over two years...
https://sunoas.doacs.state.fl.us/reports/_conserv/PSAM_COURSES.jsp?cmdkey=docsrep
wink wink nudge nudge... say no more!