Provider Name: AUBURN UNIVERSITY ENGINEERING CONTINUING EDUCATION
License Number: CE27 Provider Number: 0001387
Address: 217 RAMSAY HALL AUBURN UNIVERSITY, AUBURN, AL 36849-5331 Phone: 334-844-5742 Email: [email protected]
Course# Title Category Credits Class Type Expiration
8277 "GREAT SURVEYORS AND THEIR SURVEYS: UNDERSTANDING THE MEN, EQUIPMENT AND ACCURACY OF THEIR SURVEYS WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER SURVEYOR"
3 credit correspondence course!
Andy J, post: 416384, member: 44 wrote: Provider Name: AUBURN UNIVERSITY ENGINEERING CONTINUING EDUCATION
License Number: CE27 Provider Number: 0001387
Address: 217 RAMSAY HALL AUBURN UNIVERSITY, AUBURN, AL 36849-5331 Phone: 334-844-5742 Email: [email protected]
Course# Title Category Credits Class Type Expiration
8277 "GREAT SURVEYORS AND THEIR SURVEYS: UNDERSTANDING THE MEN, EQUIPMENT AND ACCURACY OF THEIR SURVEYS WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER SURVEYOR"3 credit correspondence course!
That's right. However, if you go to a room somewhere, and listen to Milton Denny talk about the subject for 6 hours, you're not going to get any credit at all. Not 6 hours. Not 3 hours. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Andy J, post: 416382, member: 44 wrote: And here is the list of classes that are accepted Sure looks like plenty to choose from to get a few hours in over two years...
https://sunoas.doacs.state.fl.us/reports/_conserv/PSAM_COURSES.jsp?cmdkey=docsrep
Looks like a lot of the usual suspects so to speak on the list.
I'll call it a heap of horse hockey that all
those courses were reviewed individually by someone in FL.
Sorry to be a disbelieving sort.
Seems like the same arguing that we don't need environmental control laws because the air and water are clean... while forgetting that they are clean BECAUSE of the rules.
You can believe or don't, doesn't matter to me.
The reality is that's the rules in Florida. Either play by them or step off the train.
Andy J, post: 416384, member: 44 wrote: Provider Name: AUBURN UNIVERSITY ENGINEERING CONTINUING EDUCATION
License Number: CE27 Provider Number: 0001387
Address: 217 RAMSAY HALL AUBURN UNIVERSITY, AUBURN, AL 36849-5331 Phone: 334-844-5742 Email: [email protected]
Course# Title Category Credits Class Type Expiration
8277 "GREAT SURVEYORS AND THEIR SURVEYS: UNDERSTANDING THE MEN, EQUIPMENT AND ACCURACY OF THEIR SURVEYS WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER SURVEYOR"3 credit correspondence course!
I took a few courses in the past from Auburn con't education. They are comparable to the other online providers.
But...I do want to say that I took a state specific course relative to the PLSS. It also included some historical background for the state. I passed the online test but when I reviewed my grade, I noticed some incorrect answers (2) were in error. One was very basic but very specific to
that state. I called someone over there at Auburn to notify them about their problem but was brushed off by some grad assistant or office person.
Like I said, this was a specific question to a particular state and they had the wrong answer.
I have been licensed in 3 states.
These online providers serve a purpose but some just provide a way to scrub licenses every year or so like an automated car wash.
Personally I don't care if Florida requires providers to create a http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-04-07/a94c96b0-be65-11e3-827f-f7afacea3679_jobu25.jp g" target="_blank">http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-04-07/a94c96b0-be65-11e3-827f-f7afacea3679_jobu25.jp g"/> '">shrine to Jobu to be approved, but this is from the approved list:
[INDENT]Fundamentals of Boundary Control
Boundary Control Fundamentals is designed to introduce the surveyor into the world of property law and boundary principles. It will assist in preparing the surveyor for professional licensure and, once that goal is achieved, to understand how best to serve clientsÛª needs. Although there are no formal pre-requisites for this course, it is desirable that the student have a basic knowledge of survey measurements, instrumentation and mathematics prior to attempting it
[/INDENT]
IMVHO - giving a licensed profession "continuing education" credit for taking an introduction to property law and boundary principles is BS. Unless it's a trap and if you turn in this class as part of your renewal they start to investigate you...then it's genius.
so I can keep my shrine to JObu?? whew!
Andy J, post: 416401, member: 44 wrote: Seems like the same arguing that we don't need environmental control laws because the air and water are clean... while forgetting that they are clean BECAUSE of the rules.
You can believe or don't, doesn't matter to me.
The reality is that's the rules in Florida. Either play by them or step off the train.
Obviously that's the unbending/official/legal answer. The point is, well, whatever the point of continuing Ed is. The Board doesn't care about the content or value of a course, just if it's on their list or not.
I get your point, but ultimately, those are the rules. If you don't like them, don't play here. Or try to change them.. but it's just easier if you survey where you live and then you don't have to stress over getting classes in a state you never are going to survey in. But that's just me. I couldn't care less what other states require or don't require.
But if you enjoy going online and complaining about rules that don't apply to you, then this seems to be the place!
Andy J, post: 416415, member: 44 wrote: I get your point, but ultimately, those are the rules. If you don't like them, don't play here. Or try to change them.. but it's just easier if you survey where you live and then you don't have to stress over getting classes in a state you never are going to survey in. But that's just me. I couldn't care less what other states require or don't require.
But if you enjoy going online and complaining about rules that don't apply to you, then this seems to be the place!
Ha, good point.
Robert Hill, post: 416343, member: 378 wrote: It's too bad because you demonstrated such excellent copy/paste and text formatting talent in your prior posts. Too bad that you couldn't have provided some input and insight about the process that FL uses to select CEU courses and instructers. Who is empaneled to select? Cost and time frame etc.
You really need to have a look at your reading comprehension Skippy as I relayed that in a previous post. Do I need to type s-l-o-w-e-r for you to understand? But I will use my excellent cut and paste ability to lay it out for you again. All of this here stuff was cut and pasted from the Florida survey regs which you can find on line. This here part explains who can be one of them there providers:
To demonstrate the education and/or the experience necessary to instruct professional surveyors and mappers in the conduct of their practice for continuing education credit, an applicant for continuing education provider status must be either a vendor of equipment or software used in the practice of surveying and mapping, a regionally accredited educational institution, a commercial educator, a governmental agency, a state or national professional association whose primary purpose is to promote the profession of surveying and mapping, or a surveyor and mapper with a Florida license to practice surveying and mapping who is not under disciplinary restrictions pursuant to any order of the Board. In addition, the applicant must demonstrate particular education, experience or skill which sets the applicant apart from the surveyors and mappers whom the applicant proposes to instruct.
Now this here part explains the process used to evaluate them there folks who wants to be one of them there instructers you mentioned:
To allow the Board to evaluate an initial application for continuing education provider status, the applicant must submit the following:
-The name, address and telephone number of the prospective provider;
-A description of the type of courses or seminars the provider expects to conduct for credit;
-The particular qualifications of the prospective provider to conduct the proposed courses or seminars, which qualifications set the applicant apart from the surveyors and mappers whom the applicant proposes to instruct;
-A sample certificate of completion for the course or seminar to be conducted by the applicant which certificate shall state the provider number and the course or seminar number assigned to the provider by the Board office for that course or seminar;
You then fill out the Board's application and send in 8920.94 pesos and unless you are a total moron, you can get to be a provider! You keeping up or do I need to write this in crayon?
Wow.
OK class, now we will look at the CEU approval process. In Florida the Survey Board is made up of 9 members. Seven licensed surveyors and two who ain't. All of the licensed folks are state society members which pretty much makes the Board the sock puppet of the society but that is a different tale.
Now to get a course approved to award CEU hours you first have to be an approved provider or a member of Tommy's cartel. Lets' say that i want to put on a seminar on how to find the best spot in the woods to take a dump. First, I need to fill out the application that the Board provides. I complete the application and include a time line for the course, you know, what topics we will cover and how long we will talk about them. I would probably also include a bit of history on surveyors taking a dump in the woods and my personal experience as it relates to the subject matter. I also need to include with the application a sample of the CEU certificate that I would award to those who complete the class. I take all of this material, put it in an envelope and mail it to the Board HQ. The Board only meets once a quarter (that means once every 3 months) so I have to make sure that I consider this fact when I make my application so I really need to send in my application at least three months before I plan on presenting my dumping seminar. That is probably why some of Tommy's courses were not approved. The folks putting them on did not read and follow the established rules.
Now, within the Board is a continuing education committee made up of two or three current Board members and their job is to review my dumping seminar application to see if it would be a benefit to surveyors in the state. I guess they go out and sit by the cement pond and review all of the different applications that they have received. Then later at a meeting with all of the other Board members they make a recommendation on whether my dumping seminar would be good or not. Then the entire Board votes on it and if they approve it I can then tell you where to go and what to do when you get there.
Any questions? OK, class dismissed...
Andy J, post: 416383, member: 44 wrote: wink wink nudge nudge... say no more!
Somebody gets it!
Arthur Nudge, post: 416433, member: 12531 wrote: You then fill out the Board's application and send in 8920.94 pesos and unless you are a total moron, you can get to be a provider! You keeping up or do I need to write this in crayon?
That's no too far removed from paying a building inspector a sack full of pesos to get a building permit, isn't it?
Surveyors in Florida: Trustworthy enough to be responsible for delineating the limits of the greatest material interest of most of the population, but immature enough not be able to choose their own education courses.
Once again, if the goal is to educate surveyors, there is no rational reason for denying a course that is the exact same as one that is accredited. The goal is making money.
Good grief, I took a course given by the National Geodetic Survey that I cannot get credit for. Someone in Florida printed out the material and is giving the course second hand, and credit was given.
So, to sum things up:
Florida will not give credit for a course given in person by Milton Denny, but will give credit for a correspondence course of the same subject by him.
Florida will not give credit for a course on the ALTA standards given in Kentucky by Gary Kent, but will give credit for the exact same course give in the state of Florida.
Florida will not give credit for a course given by the National Geodetic Survey, but will give a course on a second hand instruction of the material from the National Geodetic Survey.
Yes, it's a cartel, pure and simple.
Tommy Young, post: 416439, member: 703 wrote: That's no too far removed from paying a building inspector a sack full of pesos to get a building permit, isn't it?
Surveyors in Florida: Trustworthy enough to be responsible for delineating the limits of the greatest material interest of most of the population, but immature enough not be able to choose their own education courses.
You don't get it. In Florida surveying is still looked at as a trade and not a profession. We can't control ourselves so the government has to control us. this is the first entry in the state statute covering surveying.
472.001ÛÄPurpose.ÛÓThe Legislature deems it necessary to regulate surveyors and mappers as provided in ss. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0472/Sections/0472.001.html&apos ;">472.001-http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0472/Sections/0472.037.html&apos ;">472.037.
History.ÛÓss. 20, 42, ch. 79-243; ss. 2, 3, ch. 81-318; ss. 5, 7, ch. 89-137; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 83, ch. 94-119; s. 6, ch. 2000-332; s. 3, ch. 2001-63.
Big brother is watching. Maybe I should be wearing a tin foil hat too...
Arthur Nudge, post: 416441, member: 12531 wrote: You don't get it. In Florida surveying is still looked at as a trade and not a profession. We can't control ourselves so the government has to control us. this is the first entry in the state statute covering surveying.
472.001ÛÄPurpose.ÛÓThe Legislature deems it necessary to regulate surveyors and mappers as provided in ss. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0472/Sections/0472.001.html&apos ;">472.001-http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0472/Sections/0472.037.html&apos ;">472.037.
History.ÛÓss. 20, 42, ch. 79-243; ss. 2, 3, ch. 81-318; ss. 5, 7, ch. 89-137; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 83, ch. 94-119; s. 6, ch. 2000-332; s. 3, ch. 2001-63.Big brother is watching. Maybe I should be wearing a tin foil hat too...
If surveyors in Florida can't control themselves, then they need to stop calling themselves Professional Surveyors and Mappers. Put them in with the carpenters, electricians and used car salesmen.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416211, member: 12531 wrote: But what it really comes down to is what the state society wants done. They are the biggest provider of CEU education here and the Board is just a state society puppet so the Board will do what ever the state society wants.
Ummm I don't think so. Have you read this?
"PRESIDENTÛªS MESSAGE
I wanted to elaborate on what transpired on Friday, February 10th regarding the circumstances concerning the resignation of our
former Executive Director, plus other outcomes of our Board meeting on the 10th.
At our Board meeting on Friday, which was conducted in Executive Session, the Board voted to seek the resignation of our former Executive Director, or, in the alternative, to terminate her employment. She chose to resign.
The decision of the Board was in no way an easy one, and no individual Board member was responsible for the decision that was made by the majority of the Board. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made for the greater good, and that is what happened on Friday.
In addition, further on in our Board meeting, which by then was no longer in Executive Session, Lanier Mathews resigned as Vice President and Lamar Evers resigned as District 1 Director. Both of them have served the Society long and well, and we wish them well in their future endeavors. Furthermore, District 5 Director Bob Heggan also resigned. Bob was a recent addition to the Board, but in his brief time as a Director, he contributed greatly. We wish him well in his future endeavors.
We recognize the reporting of CEU credits before the end of this biennium is of paramount importance to our members. Our Education Director, Rebecca Culverson, is on top of the issue, and we also have an intern helping out (grading tests, etc.). Please remember that in order to receive credit in this biennium ending February 28th, all correspondence course tests must be in the Administrative Office by Monday, February 20th.
As an FYI, we are scheduled to have a new server installed Tuesday afternoon, Feb. 14th, which means that the SocietyÛªs emails will be down during this system upgrade.
Thank you for your time and for your support of the Florida Surveying & Mapping Society.
Lou Campanile, Jr., P.E., P.L.S.
President"
Reading through this thread reinforces my notion that Colorado has it right. Last time I checked, Colorado was one of four states with no CEU requirement for license renewal. We briefly flirted with an alternative to continuing education. Thankfully, we did not choose to enact something called "continuing professional competency". One of its main features was to require the licensed professional to describe the deficiencies in his/her practice and then tailor an educational program to address those deficiencies. The regulatory agency wanted those self-reported deficiencies to be typed into a state computer!
As to whether Mr. Nudge is licensed in Florida or not, I'm betting that he's done a lot of work in Singapore. 😉