..is a joke.
I just got an email from someone giving a 12 hour course on OPUS projects. This course is approved for Florida continuing education.
I took that course as it was given by the NGS. I can't get credit. Why not? Because the NGS isn't going to go through the idiotic process it takes to award credit.
The Obama administration has shown an interest in curtailing these runaway regulatory boards because they are a restraint of trade. The Florida surveyor's board needs to be the next target.
The last time I ranted about the Florida board, they read the message and they called me. I hope they see this.
Your state doesn't have continuing education requirements? If it does, do they have an approved list of instructors?
Andy J, post: 388866, member: 44 wrote: Your state doesn't have continuing education requirements? If it does, do they have an approved list of instructors?
Andy, I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm not licensed in Florida. I do know that Florida makes it EXTREMELY difficult to obtain preapproval. We at SAMSOG attempted, a few years ago, to get approval from Florida for some of the courses at our annual Technical Seminar. After about two months of runaround we just gave up. Georgia does not grant preapproval for course work. As professionals we should have some say so in what courses we "need" for our professional development. As an example we just had Gary Kent speak for a full day about the new ALTA/NSPS survey standards but Florida won't approve that because they weren't asked politely enough. Now some bureaucrat, probably not even a Land Surveyor, decides what is appropriate just because the correct boxes are checked.
Andy
ahhh, I see. I don't see that side of the discussion, for sure. I just keep on working!
But it's nothing new that Florida is picky about their CEU providers.
Andy J, post: 388875, member: 44 wrote: ahhh, I see. I don't see that side of the discussion, for sure. I just keep on working!
But it's nothing new that Florida is picky about their CEU providers.
They are picky to the extent that they are probably violating RICO statutes.
I took a 6 hour class a few years ago put on by Auburn University entitled "Great Surveyors and Their Surveys". This was a classroom setting course. Florida had approved a 3 hour correspondence course, but not a 6 hour classroom course. I only needed 3 hours. They absolutely refused to give me credit. I called Auburn and asked if in the future they would consider getting Florida pre-approval. They told me they did not have the budget or the manpower to go through their ardorous approval process.
Last fall, I attended a course where Gary Kent covered the new ALTA/NSPS standards. A few weeks after I took the class, he was giving the exact same course in Florida. The Florida course had been approved. The one I took? No. I cannot get credit for that class.
A few years ago the Tennessee Association of Professional Surveyors (TAPS) decided to become a licensed Florida continuing education provider because it might convince a few people to attend the annual conferernce. A friend of mine was the conference chair. It took him over a year to get the board to approve the courses. He told me that he was not ever going to do it again, because all told, it took him over a weeks worth of time to do so.
So this is what it all boils down to. I have to take 24 hours for Florida every two years. Florida's approval process is so rough that no one is going to get it if they don't have several students needing it. This means that I cannot go to a class given outside the geographic boundaries of Florida and get any credit. I have to take online and correspondence courses.
Florida is less concerned about surveyors actually learning something and more interested in protecting the cartel of continuing education providers.
Tommy Young, post: 388888, member: 703 wrote: They are picky to the extent that they are probably violating RICO statutes.
I took a 6 hour class a few years ago put on by Auburn University entitled "Great Surveyors and Their Surveys". This was a classroom setting course. Florida had approved a 3 hour correspondence course, but not a 6 hour classroom course. I only needed 3 hours. They absolutely refused to give me credit. I called Auburn and asked if in the future they would consider getting Florida pre-approval. They told me they did not have the budget or the manpower to go through their ardorous approval process.
Last fall, I attended a course where Gary Kent covered the new ALTA/NSPS standards. A few weeks after I took the class, he was giving the exact same course in Florida. The Florida course had been approved. The one I took? No. I cannot get credit for that class.
A few years ago the Tennessee Association of Professional Surveyors (TAPS) decided to become a licensed Florida continuing education provider because it might convince a few people to attend the annual conferernce. A friend of mine was the conference chair. It took him over a year to get the board to approve the courses. He told me that he was not ever going to do it again, because all told, it took him over a weeks worth of time to do so.
So this is what it all boils down to. I have to take 24 hours for Florida every two years. Florida's approval process is so rough that no one is going to get it if they don't have several students needing it. This means that I cannot go to a class given outside the geographic boundaries of Florida and get any credit. I have to take online and correspondence courses.
Florida is less concerned about surveyors actually learning something and more interested in protecting the cartel of continuing education providers.
Is it really worth it you to keep your Florida license active? Can you take your hours in Florida and apply them to the other States you are license in? A trip to Florida every 2 years doesn't sound bad in my book.
I just got a flyer for a package deal on all 24 credit hours. Correspondence class.
Scott Ellis, post: 388892, member: 7154 wrote: Is it really worth it you to keep your Florida license?
It's looking like it's probably not. It's due in February. I'll go ahead and renew because I've already taken nearly all of the continuing education. Beyond that I just don't know.
Scott Ellis, post: 388892, member: 7154 wrote: A trip to Florida every 2 years doesn't sound bad in my book.
This is Tommy we're talking about...he thinks anyone south of Gainesville is probably a Yankee and anyone south of Tampa is certainly a Cuban.;)
James Fleming, post: 388897, member: 136 wrote: This is Tommy we're talking about...he thinks anyone south of Gainesville is probably a Yankee and anyone south of Tampa is certainly a Cuban.;)
In 2009, I spent three weeks in Boyton Beach locating sewer manholes. That's the most yankees I've ever been around in my entire life.
Well, the latest update is a received an email from someone on the board staff with a title of "Government Analyst I" that told me I would not receive credit for the class on ALTA standards taught by Gary Kent because the Kentucky Association of Professional Surveyors is not an approved continuing education provider and the class was not pre-approved. For what it's worth, Gary taught the exact same class a month or so later in Florida and I'm sure no one that attended will have any problem receiving credit.
This is nothing more than a racket designed to protect an illegal cartel. This doesn't have a single thing to do with educating surveyors, it's about making people money.
Tommy Young, post: 388896, member: 703 wrote: It's looking like it's probably not. It's due in February. I'll go ahead and renew because I've already taken nearly all of the continuing education. Beyond that I just don't know.
Here is a link to CEU providers approved by the Florida ÛÏBoardÛ.
https://sunoas.doacs.state.fl.us/reports/_conserv/PSAM_PROVIDERS.jsp?cmdkey=docsrep
Obtaining a license in Florida ÛÏainÛªt no piece of cakeÛ, so if you have one I would suggest you renew it.
As a side note, I have found this provider to be my preferred choice for Florida continuing education courses. http://www.landproseminars.com/index_files/Correspondence.htm
😎
FL/GA PLS., post: 407600, member: 379 wrote: Here is a link to CEU providers approved by the Florida ÛÏBoardÛ.
https://sunoas.doacs.state.fl.us/reports/_conserv/PSAM_PROVIDERS.jsp?cmdkey=docsrep
Obtaining a license in Florida ÛÏainÛªt no piece of cakeÛ, so if you have one I would suggest you renew it.
As a side note, I have found this provider to be my preferred choice for Florida continuing education courses. http://www.landproseminars.com/index_files/Correspondence.htm
😎
It's far easier than it used to be. I flunked the old essay test. I think I was in the first group that took the multiple choice test. I got a 96.
I'm licensed in 8 states. The other 7 are nowhere near this stringent. The worst requirement is a standards of practice course; Only 2 of the 7 even require me to report my continuing education prior to renewing my license. The others just require me to keep a log in case they conduct a random audit.
My beef with this entire thing is, if I'm not trustworthy enough to be able to determine what qualifies as continuing education, there is no way in hell I need to be trusted with determining property boundaries. We are given a great responsibility and then are treated like children by the licensing board. I fully believe that FSMS was a leading proponent of all this nonsense in order to enrich their coffers.
Andy Bruner, post: 388874, member: 1123 wrote: Andy, I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm not licensed in Florida. I do know that Florida makes it EXTREMELY difficult to obtain preapproval. We at SAMSOG attempted, a few years ago, to get approval from Florida for some of the courses at our annual Technical Seminar. After about two months of runaround we just gave up. Georgia does not grant preapproval for course work. As professionals we should have some say so in what courses we "need" for our professional development. As an example we just had Gary Kent speak for a full day about the new ALTA/NSPS survey standards but Florida won't approve that because they weren't asked politely enough. Now some bureaucrat, probably not even a Land Surveyor, decides what is appropriate just because the correct boxes are checked.
Andy
Sorry to chime in late on this but I just joined. And unfortunately, those griping about Florida CEU course approvals really do not know what they are talking about. It is easy to get courses approved in Florida if you follow the Board's program. CEU providers must first be approved by the Board. An application and fee is required. Then the courses that you wish to present must be approved before they can be given for CEU hours. Nothing gets pre-approved. You have to provide a syllabus, time line, instructor background and a sample certificate for each course that you wish to present. Everything is spelled out in the state surveying regs. Problem is, the Board only meets once a quarter to review and vote on each new course application. So if you just waltz in thinking that you are going to put on a show and award CEU hours for it, it is not going to fly. I have a friend that is a CEU provider in Florida and he has no problems getting new courses approved and you should not either. As long as you allow enough lead time for the course application to run its course and provide the Board the information that they want. It use to be years ago that once approved, a CEU provider could put on any course they wished without any Board review. The Board left it up to the provider to put on survey based courses. And naturally, some providers did not do that and garbage waste of time courses started to appear. So now everything needs Board review and approval.
Tommy Young, post: 388888, member: 703 wrote: They are picky to the extent that they are probably violating RICO statutes.
I took a 6 hour class a few years ago put on by Auburn University entitled "Great Surveyors and Their Surveys". This was a classroom setting course. Florida had approved a 3 hour correspondence course, but not a 6 hour classroom course. I only needed 3 hours. They absolutely refused to give me credit. I called Auburn and asked if in the future they would consider getting Florida pre-approval. They told me they did not have the budget or the manpower to go through their ardorous approval process.
Last fall, I attended a course where Gary Kent covered the new ALTA/NSPS standards. A few weeks after I took the class, he was giving the exact same course in Florida. The Florida course had been approved. The one I took? No. I cannot get credit for that class.
A few years ago the Tennessee Association of Professional Surveyors (TAPS) decided to become a licensed Florida continuing education provider because it might convince a few people to attend the annual conferernce. A friend of mine was the conference chair. It took him over a year to get the board to approve the courses. He told me that he was not ever going to do it again, because all told, it took him over a weeks worth of time to do so.
So this is what it all boils down to. I have to take 24 hours for Florida every two years. Florida's approval process is so rough that no one is going to get it if they don't have several students needing it. This means that I cannot go to a class given outside the geographic boundaries of Florida and get any credit. I have to take online and correspondence courses.
Florida is less concerned about surveyors actually learning something and more interested in protecting the cartel of continuing education providers.
Sorry, again late to the show on this one but just could not resist chiming in. Really, this is the funniest thing that I have read here yet. Florida CEU providers are an illegal cartel?! I have got to catch your stand up act at the comedy store some time.
You are basically blaming others for a problem that you yourself created. It is clearly stated in 5J-17.044 Obligations of Continuing Education Providers that Continuing education providers must identify in advertisements and on certificates of completion whether the offered continuing education course has been approved for general continuing education credit, laws and rules continuing education credit, Standards of Practice continuing education credit, or a combination of Standards of Practice and laws and rules continuing education credit.
So here is a hint. The next time that you want to take a course for Florida CEU credit read the course advertisement first. If it does not say that the course has been approved by the Florida Board, DO NOT TAKE IT.
Arthur Nudge, post: 416205, member: 12531 wrote: Sorry to chime in late on this but I just joined. And unfortunately, those griping about Florida CEU course approvals really do not know what they are talking about. It is easy to get courses approved in Florida if you follow the Board's program. CEU providers must first be approved by the Board. An application and fee is required. Then the courses that you wish to present must be approved before they can be given for CEU hours. Nothing gets pre-approved. You have to provide a syllabus, time line, instructor background and a sample certificate for each course that you wish to present. Everything is spelled out in the state surveying regs. Problem is, the Board only meets once a quarter to review and vote on each new course application. So if you just waltz in thinking that you are going to put on a show and award CEU hours for it, it is not going to fly. I have a friend that is a CEU provider in Florida and he has no problems getting new courses approved and you should not either. As long as you allow enough lead time for the course application to run its course and provide the Board the information that they want. It use to be years ago that once approved, a CEU provider could put on any course they wished without any Board review. The Board left it up to the provider to put on survey based courses. And naturally, some providers did not do that and garbage waste of time courses started to appear. So now everything needs Board review and approval.
I cant speak for how hard or easy it is to get pre-approval in Florida, but the bigger gripe appears to be the fact that the board requires credits to come from providers that have gone through their process. i am not licenced there, but I would be very angry if any of the states I am licensed in required that. How do they know what I would benefit from? How do they know what areas of practice I would like to be involved in ? The one state that I am licensed in that does pre-approval approves some ridiculously bad and unhelpful stuff, luckily they allow non pre-approved providers as well.
It is like I mentioned before. At one time once a provider was Board approved they could basically put on any type of course that they wanted to. And it got to the point that you mentioned. Lots of ridiculously bad and unhelpful stuff was being offered up as continuing education. Out of state companies were getting set up as CEU providers and offering up garbage courses to make a quick buck. I guess the only way the Board could put a stop to it was to approve every course submitted by a provider. But what it really comes down to is what the state society wants done. They are the biggest provider of CEU education here and the Board is just a state society puppet so the Board will do what ever the state society wants.
I don't have a dog in this fight.
But.... I am still waiting for some showing of Benefit to The Public for mandatory continuing education for land surveyors.
that said, I have had many hours of excellent instruction... but some was absolutely worthless
the cost in dollars is often high, but my time can never be replaced
I just got mine accounted for... on the last day to renew.. what's the rush??
Tommy, did you get your credits in???