Continuing Education Pre Approval

I'm on that same path, I'm going to take a 40 hr metrology class on laser tracking and it'll be interesting to see if the board approves it.

Ralph

Don't know the precise circumstances, but I've seen plenty of Milton Denny courses that were approved all over the US. In most instances, the person who gives the course gets it pre-approved, so this is a bit surprising.

I know you are multi-state licensed.....perhaps Mr. Denny didn't anticipate someone being from a particular state for that course. The more states you have, the more complicated it gets. If each state requires 24 CEU's and you don't coordinate to get them cross-credited, it adds up to a lot of time and money.

We are pretty lucky here, NY, NJ and PA seem to be pretty cooperative when it comes to arranging cross-state course approval at their repsective conferences.

Tommy,
I agree. Any board that requires preapproval should be put in charge of a kindergarten class.

Pablo

Well, there is some logic

The idea for preapproval is to prevent you from taking a course that they determine is not acceptable when you submit it for license renewal.

Tommy, I feel your pain. They wouldn't accept the classes that ACSM /NSPS had at the national convention (unless they were pre-approved). In my opinion, we the surveyors are allowing the states to distance themselves from each other instead of uniting.

Well, there is some logic

Well, the onus should be on us, the professionals to take proper courses. If we take BS courses, then our license ought to be suspended until we take the right ones. I mean come on, we're out here determinining the extents of the most valuable purchases people make, but we aren't smart enough to know good continuing education?

It's all a scam. Most of us would take courses and/or attend seminars anyway.

There are plenty of sleepers in the back of the room.

The continuing ed requirements do NOT make us or our profession any better, safer, or smarter.

The solution here (or at least a possible solution) is activism.

The minute New Jersey started requiring CEU's, I wrote letters to the BOR's of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. I also wrote to the respective State Associations.

I listed the number of double/triple licensees in those states and mentioned that it would be beneficial if the licensees could get credits from one state's conference that would be valid in the others. I mentioned the issue of travel time, business hours lost due to possible duplication and the benefits of cooperation among the state associations.

I also contacted several dual/triple licensees and sent them a copy of my letter, urging then to send one as well. I also spoke out on the issue at a State Association meeting.

Now, I don't know how many others did the same thing, and I am not taking credit for anything at all, but as I stated above, NY and NJ have a good reciprocal agrement (CT still does not have CEU requirements). There was barely a period of a year where NY and NJ didn't have courses given that were honored in both states.

If a State Association or a BOR gets five or six letters (or more) on the same topic, written on different letterheads (not being carbon copies of each other) on a certain subject, it alerts them to an issue, and they will take steps to deal with it, however glacially long it may take. (Don't forget, BORs usually only meet once a month, and it's probably the same with State Association Boards.)

Instead of making it your "purpose in life" to fight the continuing education cartel, why not make it your "month long project" to contact as many multi-state licensees as you can and ask them to join you in convincing the Board about the need to improve the CEU process?

A few years ago, I decided to put on a seminar here in Louisiana through the auspices of the Louisiana Society of Professional Surveyors, and I called the state board of registration (LAPELS) to inquire what I had to do in order to obtain Continuing Education Pre Approval. The Executive Secretary of the LAPELS Board referred me to the Enforcement/Investigative Unit of LAPELS.

I was informed that since the LSU College of Engineering is ABET-approved, anything that the LSU College of Engineering officially offers for Land Surveyors (or Engineers) is automatically approved and does not require pre-approval by the LAPELS Board. Furthermore, the number of hours of credit is determined by the LSU Instructor providing the course.

Incidentally, it was a two-day (16-hour) course on the Best Practices of GPS RTN Surveying for Elevations, and we did NOT charge a fee. LSU continues to do that at least once a year in cooperation with NGS (Bill Henning of NGS). We're probably going to start charging to pay for coffee and lunch expenses, I guess.

$tate A$$ociation$ Are The Problem

PSLS is a prime example. When one figures membership dues and attendance at the full conference next week, cost is in excess of $50 per PDH, not including room and food.

PA-PLS was formed to provide a low cost alternative, $50 for 4 PDHs, $60 for 6, and no membership fee. That $50 covered a 4 hour David Doyle course, which admittedly was within an easy drive from Dave's home area. It was worth the drive to me.

Paul in PA

Coffee, Bagels, Juice, Sandwiches, Wraps and Fruit I$ AOK

Worth it to any participant. A reasonable cost to cover printed material is also OK. I believe it would be cost efficent to provide all documents on a flash drive. The time to fiddle with DVDs eats up any cost difference.

PA-PLS uses the Penn State campus here for the Lehigh Valley chapter. Room rent is OK by coffe must be through their provider, $too$ $much$.

Paul in PA

Well, there is some logic

Yep, and the idea is the problem.

I wonder what the idoits would think about self-study? OMG the fox is in charge of the hen house....

Pablo

Well, there is some logic

Well, I am a CEU provider in Florida and your thought that licensed individuals will happily take CEU course is pretty far off base. In Florida license renewals come at the end of February of each odd numbered year. For the 22 months leading up to renewal time, CEU traffic is pretty slow with everyone waiting until the last minute to take the required 24 hours of education. It got so slow that we pretty much gave up on trying to offer any courses the first year of the license period because nobody had any interest in attending. Over the course of several years teaching courses I have been told many, many times that "the only reason I am here is because I have to be" and "I hate taking these classes".

In Florida the Board must approve all CEU providers (with a $450.00 application fee) and we must renew our license every March in odd numbered years (with a $250.00 renewal cost). The Board also must review and approved every course that is presented but it did not use to be like that. At one time they left the topics and instructors up to the providers and things got out of hand. Providers were offering courses that had very little to do with surveying or offered courses that a licensed surveyor had no business taking. So in a way I have no problem with the Board reviewing and approving courses but I still feel they approved too many BS courses.

Well, there is some logic

> Well, the onus should be on us, the professionals to take proper courses. If we take BS courses, then our license ought to be suspended until we take the right ones.

What is the point of letting "professionals" pick and choose which course they will take? Many will choose based upon cost, ease of topic, location close to home, etc., etc., rather than professional criteria. All of us are aware that people don't always do what's best for themselves, and don't always educate themselves properly.

(A recent thread on GPS is a PRIME example of this.....:-O ).

Why let so-called "professionals" take four or five (or more) courses and find out LATER that they aren't acceptable?

Does that make ANY SENSE??????

JPH, thanks for your comments. I'm in total agreement.
I now take only the required number of hours. Before MANDATORY continuing education I took many more.
Some years I have had to pass on courses that I thought would be interesting and educational because I didn't NEED the hours. Too bad, very sad.

My opinion is that MANDATORY continuing education is a scam and a sham. I don't fault the providers but instead the naive do-gooders in the state association that think they are being relevant and "advancing" the profession.
I also found it very laughable when our registration was changed from "Registered Land Surveyor" to "Professional Land Surveyor". But happy day, we all be "professional" nows causing our license says we is.

By the way, our board likes to tell the lie that licensees are randomly audited for educational requirements. Not so, if you attend courses and seminars that do not send attendance info to the board, you will be "audited". I hardly define that practice as "random".

Well, there is some logic

If the surveyor doesn't pick a quality course, he should pay the consquences. If I put down that I should get 8 hours credit for attending a company meeting where we read the employee manual, then I should bear the consequences of that decision.

Well, there is some logic

Nowhere did I say anyone would happily take a CEU course.

Well, there is some logic

> If the surveyor doesn't pick a quality course, he should pay the consquences. If I put down that I should get 8 hours credit for attending a company meeting where we read the employee manual, then I should bear the consequences of that decision.

While that may be true, allowing licensees to make that type of decision will force the Board to review your "courses", and presumably those of everyone that has some little nook and cranny session that they'd like to call "a course".

Let's be realistic.....the BOR is composed of an overworked staff and a group of volunteers (mostly professionals like you and I) who have better things to do then rummage around inside of every silly report about something some surveyor thinks he or she should get CEU credit for.

Perfect example, Beerleg.com.

First off, who wants to hear that their professional surveyor, who may be making boundary decisions that affect millions of dollars of development, got credit for signing on to something called "Beerleg.com"? What BOR member, appointed by a Governor, or by a state legislature, dealing with college credits and professional providers, is going to want to be responsible for approving credits from "Beerleg.com"

(Sorry, Wendell and Angel, but that's why I wouldn't wear the T-shirt, use the mug or the coffee warmers. I sign on to Surveyorconnect.com.)

Second, after all our years of posting and reading RPLS.com and now Beerleg.com, I think we can truly say that for all the information, help and advice that can be found here, there are people posting on this site that haven't learned a thing.

Well, there is some logic

The bottom line (in my mind) is - is there evidence that the surveyors in states that don't require continuing education are less competent/knowledgeable, more fraudulent, and pose a danger to the public?

Unless the answer is yes, then there is no need for a continuing education requirement.