In February 2012 I drafted/stamped a foundation certification plan for a lot in town. The plan showed the existing foundation, ties to the lot lines, and general note that the foundation complied with the setbacks. Standard stuff.
Client comes in this morning with a copy, of a copy of my plan, stamped, that a local pool company hand-drafted a proposed pool on, and showed distances to the lot lines. They apparently used this for the building permit. The building department issued the permit, they built the pool, it's now failing (built on crap fill) and fingers are starting to point.
I have never seen this plan before a couple hours ago. I just went over to the building department, got a copy of the permit, with signatures from the pool company. I'm thinking a letter to the board of registration, building inspector, the pool company and the pool company's insurance co. are in order.
Has anyone experienced this, and how have you dealt with it? Thanks.
-V
I wouldn't include the pool company's insurance company, that's their obligation. Otherwise I don't see any other recourse. Maybe check with the DA's office regarding fraud?
To be clear, it's the pool that is failing?
> In February 2012 I drafted/stamped a foundation certification plan for a lot in town. The plan showed the existing foundation, ties to the lot lines, and general note that the foundation complied with the setbacks. Standard stuff.
>
> Client comes in this morning with a copy, of a copy of my plan, stamped, that a local pool company hand-drafted a proposed pool on, and showed distances to the lot lines. They apparently used this for the building permit. The building department issued the permit, they built the pool, it's now failing (built on crap fill) and fingers are starting to point.
>
> I have never seen this plan before a couple hours ago. I just went over to the building department, got a copy of the permit, with signatures from the pool company. I'm thinking a letter to the board of registration, building inspector, the pool company and the pool company's insurance co. are in order.
>
> Has anyone experienced this, and how have you dealt with it? Thanks.
>
> -V
A couple questions...
What stamp (embossed seal?) is on the "copy, of a copy of my plan"? Is your sketch ("plan") hand-drafted?
I've seen builders use everything from napkins to unsealed photo copies of boundary survey sketches as a background for their plot plans.
“a copy, of a copy of my plan, stamped”
With YOUR seal?
Here in Central Florida it is not unusual for a pool company, fence company, or homeowner to take a copy of a survey and draw all kinds of proposed improvements. It is usually up to the municipality issuing the permit that calls the shots as to whether a signed and sealed survey is needed. As for liability I take the position; If we didn’t draw it on the survey we accept no liability whatsoever. I’ve been in practice on my own for 26 years and have not had a problem. (yet)
Have a great week! B-)
Did you ask your client why he brought you this map? Did he come to you and say, "There's a problem with your map." I'm curious as to what he thinks you can do about a bad pool job.
another reason to have a standard services contract in place.
From V's description it appears that the building inspector required a certified plot plan showing the proposed pool location and certification that it complies with setback requirements.
The pool company added the information and submitted V's plot plan with the new data on it, thereby intimating the to the building inspector that it was certified.
I'm sure V will correct me if necessary.
That's just plain wrong!
I see it as more of an ethical problem that can be called forgery at times.
I've seen and had happen to me as done by lawyers and other surveyors to make photo copies of my work and make changes and either try to pass it off as my work or take it and try to make it their original work.
There will always be those in Texas that believe as long as your name is on a paper that it is legal and true. They do not understand that a paper document requires a signature and a surveyors crimped stamp to be legal in Texas.
Never underestimate what someone may do with or to your product.
You have no control over what a client does with the certified drawing that they get as a product of your survey.
It is the recording and/or departmental acceptance of a third party addition/altercation to your product that is at fault.
You bear no liability past what you originally provided your client.
0.02
Un-authorized modification of a survey.....
Had something similar happen to me few years ago...
I prepared a boundary & topo for a client.
Few weeks later, City Engineer calls me & has major concerns about a site plan I recently submitted. (I hadn't submitted any site plans).
I go to the Engineer's office and my client had took my boundary & topo and "designed" a site, showing proposed building, parking lot, proposed grades, etc.
After explaining that I had never seen this before, the City Eng called the client and client admitted he did it and didn't see a problem.....
City Eng declined his plan until signed/sealed by PE
Had another client take a commercial subdivision plat that was NOT signed or sealed, had a statement that it wasn't valid without signature and seal and had PRELIMINARY stamped in red ink, to a local courthouse and GOT IT RECORDED! Client was a very well known attorney. No planning reviews, no city reviews, several easements not shown, no setbacks, only 1/2 monuments set, nothing....
The attorney had requested a copy to review and use to prepare descriptions for easements since he was handling the closings and represented the client developing the site.
I sent the prelim copy with a cover letter stating the facts. Couple weeks later while in the courthouse doing research, I found it recorded....
The site is completely built out now with apartments, national fast food restaurant, medical offices and professional offices. All with lot & block descriptions referencing that recorded preliminary plat.......
Scary what happens with some of our surveys after they leave our office......
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you...
Yes, the pool is failing. The house is fine.
-V
The original stamp was in black ink, with a blue-ink signature.
-V
I think your list of those to contact should be reviewed by an attorney. Also the attorney should draft the letter and will likely request that any further communication be with the attorney.
We like to think that we have more knowledge of the legal system. However, in a situation like this putting the attorney between you and everyone else is a good idea. The attorney should tell everyone "I will check with my client and get back to you." This gives you an opportunity to review legal pitfalls before responding. A few wrong words during any conversation can come back to haunt you.
My client is the home builder, who hired the pool contractor. Now that he's dealing with the fallout of the pool failing, he came to me with some questions. Just wanted me to scale some distances. The plot plan (my plan that was marked up) shows the location of the pool pad in relation to the lot lines. I guess the pool wasn't put exactly on the proposed pad location, so a portion underneath was left un-compacted which is why it's failing.
-V
That's exactly what happened.
-V
I agree. My boss is an attorney actually. He and I will sit down and draft a letter to all involved.
I'm sure nothing will come of it, but I'll send out letters anyway at least to the building department (so they can put it in the file) and to the B.O.R.
-V
Is the pool builder a licensed contractor? Turn him in to his Contractor's licensing board.
Sic-em, boy. Bite-em where it hurts.
I can understand people copying a plat to rough out something. I can't understand how they think it is perfectly fine to then present something like that for approval with the inference that you are the one who did all of it.
> I agree. My boss is an attorney actually. He and I will sit down and draft a letter to all involved.
>
> I'm sure nothing will come of it, but I'll send out letters anyway at least to the building department (so they can put it in the file) and to the B.O.R.
>
> -V
At minimum there will be the expense of repairing/replacing the pool. That will likely involve a civil action or insurance claim. In either case EVERYONE involved in development of the property will be subjected to examination. Sidestepping that is priority #1 and requires documenting your non-involvement in pool planning and construction.
Notifying the building department they have accepted a plan that may not meet their own standards will not be well received. Like professional surveyors their job is to protect the public. If they require professional certification and accepted a plan that is not certified it may open them to financial and/or personal liability.
If the plan was fraudulently certified both the building department and your B.O.R. have an option of filing charges. The charges would be different from each department.
More of the whole story is coming in. Turns out the pool company (based on the modified version of my plan) staked an area for compaction. The builder compacted an area that was inconsistent with the stakes. Another engineering company certified the compaction. The pool was then built partially off the pad, which again, is why it's failing.
The house was 1.1 mil, and the builder is estimating 100K to fix the pool. This is going to be a mess.
-V