I believe that the Florida Land Surveyors should fight like wildcats to remain regulated by the State. But in the event that you (Florida Land Surveyors) get kicked out, what I would suggest is to become self-regulated. Self Regulation would mean that the Florida Society would regulate the Profession. Conduct tests, distribute licenses to qualified applicants and sue non-licensed individuals for practicing land surveying without a license. This would require a much more vigorous Board. Also you would have to consult an attorney about what regulatory authority you would have.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
A golden idea
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
Mr. Corner - That's a neat idea but how would the Florida group sue anybody for unlicensed activity if there's no law that they have to participate in the licensing program? Some kind of contractual agreement? I'd have to look real close before I would sign up for any kind of private association that would bind me to their rules or else they could sue me.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
Self regulation gets it's authority from an enabling act by the legislature. It's the process by which surveyors are licensed in Canada, Great Britain, Australia, et al.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
> Mr. Corner - That's a neat idea but how would the "Floriday" group sue anybody for unlicensed activity if there's no law that they have to participate in the licensing program?
True, that's why I would consult an attorney who has knowledge of professional licensing laws and the like. In my state the appraisers never used to be state licensed and they self regulated but I don't know how they did that. I believe there's a way to do it, I just don't know all the details.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
> Self regulation gets it's authority from an enabling act by the legislature. It's the process by which surveyors are licensed in Canada, Great Britain, Australia, et al.
Now we are getting somewhere.......
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
This is under the assumption that Surveyors could get a law passed that says a private regulating board has the legal authority to block unlicensed activity. I seriously doubt the legislators responsible for this would go along with that. The only reason they've stated so far for backing this bill is "regulation hurts business" and "let's get people back to work" and the like. I don't think they are looking to trade one regulating authority for another.
It's not about money (the board has a budget surplus), there is no public outcry for this bill ... like I said before, it's about deregulation for the sake of deregulation.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
It is toothless without some sort of enabling Statute. Sort of like GISP or all those initials Realtors like to put after their name. It used to be popular for Architects to put AIA after their name I assume because there was no State license at the time so it was a credential. You would have to convince the public that the credential is essential for a quality product but they could still hire anyone they wanted, credential or not.
I am not certain if such a privatization of a government regulatory function is legal in the USA. I thought the Bar was private but at least here in California it isn't; it is formed by Statute and operates under the Court system.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
> This is under the assumption that Surveyors could get a law passed that says a private regulating board has the legal authority to block unlicensed activity. I seriously doubt the legislators responsible for this would go along with that. The only reason they've stated so far for backing this bill is "regulation hurts business" and "let's get people back to work" and the like. I don't think they are looking to trade one regulating authority for another.
>
> It's not about money (the board has a budget surplus), there is no public outcry for this bill ... like I said before, it's about deregulation for the sake of deregulation.
True, but if you guys put enough pressure on the dimwit repubs. they might agree as a face saving compromise. Also if the Geologists are in the same boat as you guys, maybe even suggest a joint board as there are no conflicting interests between geologists and land surveyors unlike civil engineers who need and hire land surveyors for their services. There is strength in numbers when dealing with the legislature.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
> It is toothless without some sort of enabling Statute. Sort of like GISP or all those initials Realtors like to put after their name. It used to be popular for Architects to put AIA after their name I assume because there was no State license at the time so it was a credential. You would have to convince the public that the credential is essential for a quality product but they could still hire anyone they wanted, credential or not.
>
> I am not certain if such a privatization of a government regulatory function is legal in the USA. I thought the Bar was private but at least here in California it isn't; it is formed by Statute and operates under the Court system.
Yes, a last resort measure, but it would be better than nothing and it would hold status in a court case.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
and who is this True corner that has all answers to the Florida problem?
> I believe that the Florida Land Surveyors should fight like wildcats to remain regulated by the State. But in the event that you (Florida Land Surveyors) get kicked out, what I would suggest is to become self-regulated. Self Regulation would mean that the Florida Society would regulate the Profession. Conduct tests, distribute licenses to qualified applicants and sue non-licensed individuals for practicing land surveying without a license. This would require a much more vigorous Board. Also you would have to consult an attorney about what regulatory authority you would have.
Without statutory authority (such as the State Bar has), the state society could only issue certifications, which would amount only to a marketing tool since one would need neither a license nor a certification to practice.
They would not have any grounds to sue non-certified practitioners because they would have no authority to require the certification of anyone, and thee state would no longer require a license.
But if competent surveyors wanted to move toward self regulation with the statutory authority to back it up, a system of voluntary certification would be a logical first step.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
It doesn't matter who True Corner is (it's Corey, as you well know). His comments should be judged only on their merits, not on their origin.
Stephen
I'm skeptical about self-regulation. Professional societies serve to protect the profession, not the public, so there is an inherent conflict of interest and lack of independent viewpoint.
As an example of failure in self-regulation, there's a lot of self-regulation that goes on in the medical profession, yet they treat each other with kid gloves and don't sanction anyone for anything but the most egregious and heinous instances of malfeasance, so bad doctors are allowed to continue to practice badly for their entire careers - which is a big part of the reason medical malpractice costs and malpractice insurance are so ridiculously high in that profession. It's the fox guarding the henhouse.
Well, the board in Florida is made of 7 surveyors and 2 consumer members, so it's pretty much "self regulation" as it stands now.
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
How do you think L@#yers do it? The Bar Association grants, restricts and revokes licenses to practice law. They require continuing education, run their own ethics committees and collect renewal fees. The only ones of which I have direct knowledge are not funded by the state.
The Oklahoma Bar Association only answers to the Oklahoma Supreme Court, a bunch of elected politicians sitting on the bench.
In Oklahoma the State Board of Bar Examiners determine qualifications, administer & grade tests, and charge exorbitant fees to do so. Beside all of the other fees, it is a minimum of $1,000 just to toke the test.
> I'm skeptical about self-regulation. Professional societies serve to protect the profession, not the public, so there is an inherent conflict of interest and lack of independent viewpoint.
>
> As an example of failure in self-regulation, there's a lot of self-regulation that goes on in the medical profession, yet they treat each other with kid gloves and don't sanction anyone for anything but the most egregious and heinous instances of malfeasance, so bad doctors are allowed to continue to practice badly for their entire careers - which is a big part of the reason medical malpractice costs and malpractice insurance are so ridiculously high in that profession. It's the fox guarding the henhouse.
That also describes L@#$ers and their State Bar Associations.
The difference is that the surveyor members are there to represent the public as domain experts in surveying, not to represent the professional society.
My 1st motion in the self-regulated Survey profession is to order each and every one of us to pull out every monument we have ever set. Let everyone start over (joking)
Solution to Floriday de-regulation
Tis not I. My former moniker was 'Corner Stone'.
