At present we are covered because my wife is a school teacher. See actually retired with her 30 years 4 years ago. Since I've been self employed most of our lives we've used her access for insurance. She likes teaching and was able to take a half time kindergarten (post retirement at a new district – big cut in pay grade) just for access to health insurance. This pays half the insurance and they deduct the other half but she still has some take home pay. With the deductible and what the insurance premiums are in total it comes to $17,000 per year for health care.
I've read an article based upon an interview with a top health insurance CEO. He might be hedging a bit but said for my state they predicted that premiums were going to go up 100% next year. So at that rate our insurance will cost maybe $30,000. If my wife keeps working just for access to insurance we might actually need to send the school district money at the end of each month. Now if we are careful we can get a lot of ordinary health care for $30,000. It just wouldn't cover the big unexpected things. Under the new system the insurance companies can't turn anyone away. A decision hasn't been made but I'm leaning towards having my wife quit her job just as a means to actually save money by not being in a system where we are required to pay for the insurance. I'm going to pay the fine or tax or what ever it is. On a normal year we can pay for what we need with maybe $10,000. If something big happens I'll go on the exchange and buy the insurance or just die, whatever. If the wife continues working she will get a job where they don't have health insurance (an employer with less than 50 employees like me). That way we would be able to keep the money to pay for our own health care. I don't know how hard it is going to be to pay cash for health services but suppose I'm going to find out. Might get turned away, no insurance cash not accepted. I think doctor visits will be OK but you probably won't get admitted to a hospital with cash unless you deposit a hundred thousand or so (cover unknown contingencies).
So isn't that the kicker. Instead of working for an employer that has health insurance benefits you want to work for one that doesn't! I wonder if this discussion is not going on in self employed households all across America. I only have a few years until Medicare. I don't want to go there either but other than dying don't know how to avoid it.
I feel your pain. Mine jumped 70% from last year to this year and I was told to expect at least that much increase next year (that is if my plan is even available then - HSA). Not sure what I'm gonna do yet. You have pretty much laid the available options though.
How is this not going to get political?
I am going to keep my mouth shut. Except for just now.
I have nothing more to say.
So why did I say anything, you ask?
That's what they used to say at the bar until I stopped going there.
Have you ever been thrown out of a bar by your own friends?
Well, anyway, health insurance vs. health care is a topic that begs discussion; just not here 🙂 .
Don
I beg to differ
Health insurance in any form is very important to a high number of surveyors, let alone sole proprietors and SOLO operators.
I don't disagree with the fear of political talk or the potential(in this discussion), of a political bend, but where else is a better place for a sole-proprietor or a SOLO "surveying" operative to discuss issues(such as this), that has a direct bearing on us?
Maybe, at times, we have to learn not to allow the "political", bend of a discussion to occur.
It's not really that hard to stick only to the issue at hand without discussing the disgusting stuff that takes place in the political arena.
How is this not going to get political?
Don, I suppose you are correct about this. Like Leon, my health insurance comes via my wife's teaching job. I would spend far less with no plan whatsoever. However, the wife has had two major surgeries in the past six years. The type of surgeries you get because you must.
For a gigantic waste of money, one only needs to total up what they have spent on automobile insurance over the years versus payouts from them.
I beg to differ
The issue is intensely political. It shouldn't be, but it is.
Sorry, but you know that, don,t you?
My views would be branded "socialist," so, really, it's best to not even bring it up.
Don
$30,000/year? That's $15.00/hr out of my pay. At what point will they put themselves out of business? On top of that, they only want the healthy enrolees. Sell all your
assets and go on welfare, get yourself an access card, and walk into any emergency room whenever you want. Carte Blanche
I have no insurance plan. One of my employees cut his hand last summer while I was on the job site and required medical attention. I had another employee drive him into town and said "Do not go to the emergency room, go to the clinic", so of course, they went to the emergency room. $1100 for 5 stiches. I went to the hospital to settle the bill and asked if they gave a discount for cash since we had no insurance. Long story short, $1100 with insurance, $487 without. You do the math. Maybe the hospitals are as much to blame as the insurance companies.
Bruce
Small Firm Health Insurance Cost
I'd expect a lot of small survey firms (under 50 employees) have some decisions to make also. They aren't required to provide insurance benefits. If the large increases predicted occur they are going to need to cover them. I'd think that that they will need to increase their billing rates to cover them. If they can do that that would be great. If they decide to drop insurance benefits then they may not be able to keep quality employees that can go elsewhere and get the benefits. Myself if I had the employees I'd just increase their pay (if the business could support the extra expense) and have them buy their own insurance. I just don't like dealing with stuff like this (not an office guy).
Somehow I have the feeling that the transition is going to be a hairy ride.
I'm not trying to start a political fight here. Just discussing the economic reality. We are going to need to deal with this.
This is a very good and relevant post.
I am solo. My wife is a stay at home mom.
We currently have ZERO health insurance.
Our kids are 15, 12, and 9 years old.
Please keep this conversation civil and productive.
I could really use some helpful advice from you all my friends.
Brad
I'm 64 now and semi-retired. No employer health insurance for me or my wife.
I have a single coverage individual policy from Anthem BC-BS since 2010. It's now $289 per month and it has a $5500 annual deductible (it is a medical savings account type of plan). My only pre-existing condition was glaucoma, which was exempted.
In September I went down all of the basement stairs at once at a rate of about $1000 per second, all out of pocket. What I learned was that ALL of the providers had their charges beaten down by up to 80% by Anthem, even though they didn't pay a nickel.
Even though glaucoma was exempt from coverage, the $1100 charge for corrective laser surgery was reduced to $242 because that was what Anthem had negotiated.
My point is that even if you have to "go it alone" with a bunch of exclusions for pre-exisitng conditions, or if you have an astronomical deductible, or both, it can make sense to be insured by a company that has bargaining power with providers.
Of course, all of this goes away May 1 when I go on medicare.
Brad, my friend
I believe that you and your family, like all American families, have an essential and basic right to all the care you require to live healthy lifes, free of concern that you may be devastated by a medical emergency. Our nation has the resources to guarantee this, and some good day the angry people will recognize our obligation to each other.
Don
I think each state is still sorting it out but by 2014 there should be an exchange where you can buy the insurance online if you want. So that's all fine. The next step is you'll have to pay for it. Access will not be the problem as in the past but affordability is going to be an issue. You'll just need to make the business profitable enough to cover the costs. Hopefully you are already there and the access problem was all that needed to be resolved.
Brad, my friend
Thanks man.
I look forward to getting kicked out of a bar with you someday.
Mine actually came down last year. In April of '12 it was $284±/mo and was about to jump to $336±/mo. I called my insurance agent to get him to look around at other options because I was considering dropping it altogether. Somehow my insurance company (Assurant) got in with one of the big guys and/or groups for individual policies and mine came down to $185±/mo. I also have no wife, kids or other people on my plan. I am 44, don't smoke and very heavyset (morbidly obese). I guess I'm lucky to be as healthy as I am.
My deductibles are high like Carl Zeiss's, but I feel better having catastrophic insurance rather than nothing. I get a prescription card also, which means that I pay about 10%~20% of the sticker price at the pharmacy. I have some high blood pressure, so it's nice to have the card.
I don't know what the rate increase will be this year, but I expect there will be one.
Carl
Connecticut is out front setting up exchanges. How all this is going to work out yet I have no idea. Right now me and my wife pay $13,000 a year. Crazy...no kids.
Joe
Brad, my friend
The law was passed about two years ago. The Supreme Court ruled the law was constitutional. I think the election was finally settled today. The angry people have thus recognized their obligation to each other. At this time the political whining is mostly a moot point. So the only thing left from your post is gathering the nations resources to guarantee this. A nation is made up of people like you and me and all others that follow this board. So now comes the hard part (from my viewpoint maybe not others) and that is paying for the basic right you believe in and was passed into law. The invoice is being generated as we speak. So this discussion is directed at solos and businesses preparing themselves to pay what's coming due. There are choices that need to be made before the end of the year on how you are going to comply with the law. Its just economic business planning.
The changes happening take awhile to sink in. Everyone’s situation is different. Folks should sit down, figure out how things are going to be and decide how to deal with it. Check with your insurance provider on the up coming costs.
Employees may be able to just sit back and let someone else handle it except they may find out their employer is dropping their coverage, permanently putting them part time so as not to be required to insure (less than 30 hours), dropping their job, or closing down. Some may find out that their employer is going to provide the insurance, so lucky them but they will probably be expected to be a lot more productive.
So far the insurance costs have just gone up and are expected to go up. Maybe it will reverse and a few years from now it will all be like the dream and healthcare costs will be 50% of what it was a couple years ago with 100% coverage of the population. You can put that in your business plan if that's what you expect. It's your plan and you are the boss.
I think is is critical to think about all this and attempt to prepare for what's coming.
Brad, my friend
I'm looking past all that.
Single payer.
Canadian (those socialist dogs).
It's what is needed and what will come.
Don
P.S.
This thread is gonna get dumped. Hope I don't get dumped again, too.
I've been pretty good, haven't I?
Brad, my friend
I like to think I'm a realist. Regardless of how you might consider me to be on the political spectrum on this point we are probably in more agreement than otherwise.
I too think single payer maybe the solution but not because of socialism but because of cost containment. But can such a system contain costs and meet the need? It's obvious to me that what we got and probably what's coming doesn't and won't contain costs and thus be affordable. But I've made plenty of mistakes in my life and maybe my view on this is completely wrong.
But anyway my free opinions are worth what they cost you (nothing) and I been around here so long that I'm a duck in both directions (no need to attack anyone and what comes my way -very little anymore- is insignificant).
But keeping a business alive and going is more serious and no matter how one considers this healthcare deal you've got to stay on top of it and be prepared if possible. Figure out what's real and deal with it!
Brad, my friend
> This thread is gonna get dumped. Hope I don't get dumped again, too.
> I've been pretty good, haven't I?
Careful, I see an image in my mind of the guy in your avatar about to trip on one of those railroad ties. 😉
