So, checking something I heard from another surveyor that did not make sense to me:
He said that a surveyor licensed in one stat could do work on base in a different state for DoD contract without being licensed in that state. Is that true or just B'S? Just seems to not make sense to me. But on the other hand, government is involved so logic is not required.
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Jawja, post: 456378, member: 12766 wrote: So, checking something I heard from another surveyor that did not make sense to me:
He said that a surveyor licensed in one stat could do work on base in a different state for DoD contract without being licensed in that state. Is that true or just B'S? Just seems to not make sense to me. But on the other hand, government is involved so logic is not required.
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And the spelling errors are courtesy of Samsung spell check.
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Jawja, post: 456378, member: 12766 wrote: a surveyor licensed in one stat could do work on base in a different state for DoD contract without being licensed in that state
If all the work is performed on a federally-owned facility, then no license at all is required unless the contracting federal agency requires it.
As an example, California has some very stringent requirements regarding land division and usage, but when the U.S. Postal Service decides to buy a property to subdivide and develop for its own purposes, the USPS can (and has) told the local agency to take its state laws and local ordinances and get out of the way.
Jim Frame, post: 456381, member: 10 wrote: If all the work is performed on a federally-owned facility, then no license at all is required unless the contracting federal agency requires it.
As an example, California has some very stringent requirements regarding land division and usage, but when the U.S. Postal Service decides to buy a property to subdivide and develop for its own purposes, the USPS can (and has) told the local agency to take its state laws and local ordinances and get out of the way.
How the..... again I have to remind myself that the government is involved so logic is irrelevant.
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The Army Corp of Engineers also have their own take on land surveying.
The logic could be ratioalized as the purpose of licensing is to protect the public. The US Gov doesn't need that protection for work within their sites.
Now if the work includes setting the boundary of said parcel, I'd think it would be a fair conclusion that the state license should be required.
I do a lot of federal work (probably 75% to 90%, it vries year to year). As long as it is not boundary (i.e photo control, geodetic control, monument pairs, topo, scanning, deformation surveys, etc) no license is required. I have done this type of work for the feds in all 50 states. However, I have never undertaken (nor been asked to) boundary work outside of where I am licensed. I think the Army Corps, at least, is very cognizant of the need to have local license/knowledge/experience to do boundary, but photo control, etc is not state specific.
Agree with John's comments and I have done a lot the same, not all 50 states yet, BUT a good many. Some of the DoD contracts do require a PLS, BUT not necessarily in the state where the work is EXCEPT if you are setting a boundary between the DoD installation and other ownership, of course you would need the requisite state PLS license then.
Be aware if you are going for this type of work, some level of background check will be performed, you or your crew may be prohibited from entering depending on what is in your past.
SHG
I would say it depends on the individual states' laws. In Mississippi the law states that as long as the person doing the surveying is an employee of the government agency working only on the governments property, then they do not have to be licensed. However, if you are an employee of a contractor that is hired by that government agency to perform surveying services, you must be licensed. If you work for a company hired to perform the work, you are offering professional surveying services, so you need to be licensed and your firm must have a surveying certificate of authority to provide these services. The government agency may tell you that you don't need it, but they also will not help you when the investigator comes calling. Be careful and check into all of the laws and rules before accepting any project. And yes, there has been surveyors disciplined by the MS Licensing Board for this.
Jawja, post: 456378, member: 12766 wrote: So, checking something I heard from another surveyor that did not make sense to me:
He said that a surveyor licensed in one stat could do work on base in a different state for DoD contract without being licensed in that state. Is that true or just B'S? Just seems to not make sense to me. But on the other hand, government is involved so logic is not required.
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If they're not requiring anything to be recorded with the County I guess they wouldn't need a State licensed Survey. Most of the contracts I've seen say a Surveyor licensed to file in State of ...... Is required. Possibly the Contracting Officer screwed up and missed it. The DoD contract in my area required a State Licensed Surveyor to layout housing on Base. Call them and see if it's an oversight.
Skeeter1996, post: 456403, member: 9224 wrote: If they're not requiring anything to be recorded with the County I guess they wouldn't need a State licensed Survey. Most of the contracts I've seen say a Surveyor licensed to file in State of ...... Is required. Possibly the Contracting Officer screwed up and missed it. The DoD contract in my area required a State Licensed Surveyor to layout housing on Base. Call them and see if it's an oversight.
No, actually surveyor was telling me about a FL surveyor doing work on naval base. I know for a fact that FL surveyor does not have a GA license. It just blew my mind is all.
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Joe W. Byrd, post: 456400, member: 10015 wrote: government agency working only on the governments property
I believe there is a distinct difference between "government" and "federal government" at least as it applies to military bases. Our Civil group has looked into several opportunities both in country and out and as long as the Engineer is licensed by a State to practice then they are qualified to practice on the base facility regardless of where the license is held in relation to the base location. We successfully pursued a Landscape Architecture contract on an Air Force base in Japan and that held true for our RLA.
License portability is common across numerous Professions with the feds. Not all agencies take advantage of it and it isn't universal.
Jim Frame, post: 456381, member: 10 wrote: If all the work is performed on a federally-owned facility, then no license at all is required unless the contracting federal agency requires it.
As an example, California has some very stringent requirements regarding land division and usage, but when the U.S. Postal Service decides to buy a property to subdivide and develop for its own purposes, the USPS can (and has) told the local agency to take its state laws and local ordinances and get out of the way.
I'd like to see them tell my County Clerk and Recorder to step aside. That would be interesting as heck.
Jawja, post: 456407, member: 12766 wrote: No, actually surveyor was telling me about a FL surveyor doing work on naval base. I know for a fact that FL surveyor does not have a GA license. It just blew my mind is all.
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Usually Military Bases use Surveyors to do construction layout. They don't do alot of property line type work. A Surveyor from Colorado did alot of building layout on a Base here in Montana. He felt a little guilty doing it so he did get licensed in Montana. The Federal Government (USFS and BLM) use to do tons of work without licensed Engineers and Surveyors. There still aren't alot of licensed Engineers, but most Land Surveyors have to be licensed to be able to file survey records in Counties. I doubt there are alot of licensed Engineers or Surveyors working on Military bases. Next time I'm in the Clerk and Recorder's Office I'm going to ask them what they would do if an unlicensed Lieutenant brought in a survey to be filed.
That's a little off the thread because you're talking about a Contractor. I would think the State people would raise Cain about that. Seems to me there is a regulation against offering surveying service without a State license. You should file a complaint to see how they handle it.
Skeeter1996, post: 456445, member: 9224 wrote: I'd like to see them tell my County Clerk and Recorder to step aside.
In my experience with USPS projects, the Service makes an effort to conform to local practice, but when it presents what they consider an unreasonable burden they proceed without doing so. After completing a purchase that involved dividing a larger parcel (because they only want part of it), if the local Recorder declined to record the documents, they federal agent would likely shrug his shoulders and say, "Suit yourself" and move ahead building their project.
Jim Frame, post: 456474, member: 10 wrote: In my experience with USPS projects, the Service makes an effort to conform to local practice, but when it presents what they consider an unreasonable burden they proceed without doing so. After completing a purchase that involved dividing a larger parcel (because they only want part of it), if the local Recorder declined to record the documents, they federal agent would likely shrug his shoulders and say, "Suit yourself" and move ahead building their project.
How would they ever get through their legal department review doing that.
The Highway Department use to divide property without surveying it. There ended up being two deeds to the same piece of property to two different owners. Both had deeds to the same parcel. The Lawyers are making a ton of money off that. It's just in the last 20 years or so that the Highway Department started using Registered Surveyors. Most of them got grandfathered in to getting licenses and they now makeup the worst Surveyors in the State. I doubt many Highway Department Engineers are licensed.
I should add that my experience with USPS projects is over 20 years out of date, so they may not do things the way they used to.
Jawja, post: 456378, member: 12766 wrote: So, checking something I heard from another surveyor that did not make sense to me:
He said that a surveyor licensed in one stat could do work on base in a different state for DoD contract without being licensed in that state. Is that true or just B'S? Just seems to not make sense to me. But on the other hand, government is involved so logic is not required.
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That is completely true as military facilities fall outside the realm of State control. Qualifying and making the DOD short list as a Contractor is a cumbersome process as well as the process of being an improved Sub contractor.
Post 9/11 I worked for a firm that did allot of military work out of state where I signed and sealed plans.
Joe W. Byrd, post: 456400, member: 10015 wrote: I would say it depends on the individual states' laws. In Mississippi the law states that as long as the person doing the surveying is an employee of the government agency working only on the governments property, then they do not have to be licensed. However, if you are an employee of a contractor that is hired by that government agency to perform surveying services, you must be licensed. If you work for a company hired to perform the work, you are offering professional surveying services, so you need to be licensed and your firm must have a surveying certificate of authority to provide these services. The government agency may tell you that you don't need it, but they also will not help you when the investigator comes calling. Be careful and check into all of the laws and rules before accepting any project. And yes, there has been surveyors disciplined by the MS Licensing Board for this.
This is the most accurate statement on this thread. There is a big difference between a federal employee and a government contractor. Also, any surveying that results in change in grade will effect stormwater discharge from the site. That can effect the public living on private property in the same watershed.
Bottom line, its always better to check with the state board where the work is taking place.
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