Where is the federal law or whatever explaining this? I am pretty good at google, but have found absolutely nothing.
I've been kicked off the tracks (SPRR/UPRR) a few times in my career, but a few months ago I had to get in the ROW officially to topo some proposed pedestrian crossings. It was a semi-hostile situation, because the RR didn't want my client (City of Davis) to put in any crossings. Still, I was able to arrange for a RR flagman, which I had to schedule about a week in advance, and we spent 2 half-days on the tracks. He was a nice guy -- maybe too nice, because he yakked my ear off while I was running the rod -- but we got the job done.
That was in late May, and I still haven't received a bill from the RR. I'm thinking they may have decided to eat the cost instead of further antagonizing the city.
Conrail has revised their track clearance for contractors working in the "foul" area of the tracks to 15 feet from center of track.
I just had a Conrail safety traing class and this was emphasized again and again.
End of conversation as far as Conrail goes.
$10000 trespass does sound familiar, and they are written against the individual, NOT the company. i think the history goes back to the race west, and hurriedly building track on they way. the feds gave the RR carte blanche on eminent domain for right of ways, and the law still sort of ripples through
i have been threatened by CSX police, CSX rail inspectors, and linemen. they all told me not to try to negotiate, just get out right away.
not to mention getting ROW plats from CSX. i sent a request to jacksonville; they wanted something like a month for lookup time and $100 a page!
Then IMHO I think you would be OK. I have been through enough RR safety classes to know not to get on a rail, for anything, without someone watching your back.
We have a couple of railroads around here that turned into dead end short lines due to one end being abandoned. You could have a picnic on those tracks and no one would care.
However, in the next county is the mainline that runs from Memphis to Nashville. We don't get on that sucker.
RR ROW is private property.
RR companies must follow Federal Railway Administration rules.
Many RR's are even more restrictive than FRA allows
It is their game, play by the rules OR pay the fines or with your life.
Most all RR require contractors to go through some training to be in the ROW, have in place a flag man or other methods to issue safety, must wear PPE and so on. Working in the RR ROW isn't just something you do on a whim, takes some time and coordination to make happen.
Most RR's have what is required on their web sites, also the FRA are online.
I need to go to one of Mr. Tucker's classes too, from what I have heard very well worth it.
SHG
I've been all over the FRA website since last night. Many of their articles specifically mention there is no federal law over trespassing, only state laws. If state law in the state I live/work in says I am authorized to enter railroad property for the purpose of a land survey, I have to think I am in my right at this point. I am not trespassing, I am not doing anything illegal. No one has posted anything to make me think differently. If someone knows something actually concrete, I wish they would post it.
It is policy of most (if not all) railroads that you cannot trespass upon their ROW without proper insurance, safety training and flagging protection. Not even to cross the tracks, except at an authorized RR crossing.
Around here, we work with Amtrak, Conrail, NJ Transit, NYC Transit, MTA (MetroNorth and LIRR), PATH, and others. No one, nowhere, no how, is allowed on their properties without meeting the above conditions.
FRA controls what constitutes fouling the track and general safety regulations that the RR must follow.
The RR don't want trespassers primarily because of safety, they DO NOT want the FRA crawling all over them if an accident occurs. The lookout / flag man has to be properly trained, etc., can't just be a warm body.
From the FRA site:
"At the FRA, reducing rail-related accidents is always our number one goal. As part of this endeavor, we are working to reduce highway-rail crossing and trespasser incidents. A highway-rail crossing is defined as a location where railroad tracks intersect a public or private thoroughfare, side walk or a pathway. A trespasser is anyone whose presence on railroad property-track, bridges, equipment and yards-is not authorized by the railroad.
The reality is that nearly every 115 minutes in America, someone is hit by a train. Combined, highway-rail crossing and trespasser deaths account for 90 percent of all rail-related deaths. What is truly tragic is that most of these accidents are avoidable. Most crossing accidents occur simply because motorists choose to ignore warnings signs, signals, or safety gates. Nearly all trespasser deaths are preventable. Unfortunately, many people continue to jog, ride bikes, and walk near or over tracks daily, needlessly endangering their lives and the lives of train crews. Many believe they will hear the oncoming train or that the train will be able to stop in time. The fact is that it takes a train traveling 50 mph a mile-and-a-half to stop.
While many of these fatalities and injuries occur because people choose to disregard warning signs, some are a result of adults and children not understanding that a train can travel through a segment of track at any time, often with less than a minute of warning."
SHG
A good read about FRA safety regulations can be found in Code of Federal regulations (CFR) Title 49 Part 214 (RAILROAD WORKPLACE SAFETY)
Each individual RR also has in place regulations, UPRR can be found here: http://www.uprr.com/reus/group/contract.shtml
These rules usually state RR employee OR contractor, the guys in the field that enforce the rules treat everyone the same, without approval of the RR you are a trespasser.
SHG
Apparently I am a trespasser who can't be charged with a crime... super.
🙂
> My experience with getting proper permission to enter the railroad right of way is frustrating. In the past, it takes many phone calls to try to track down the right person to get permission to enter the right of way. Next, you need to pay a flagger $600-800/day, even if you are only going to be out there for an hour. Lastly, you need to have railroad liability and pollution insurance. What am I going to pollute? Different railroads have mandated anywhere from $4 to $10 million of this type of coverage. This coverage costs many thousands, if not over $10,0000.
>
This has been my experience too, getting thru the proper channels can take weeks, sometimes months! For a little 3 minute occupation session, or a quick traverse point of convenience, I wouldn't even bother chasing permission & just fall back on Act 115 for defense if ya got caught. An important provision in that Act which you left out may lend more credence if they got persnickity about it:
54.124 Forfeiture of claim for damage or injury.
Sec. 4. The surveyor by his entry shall forfeit any and all claim for damage or injury to his person and equipment while on the lands or waters, unless the damage or injury is caused by the intentional tortious conduct of another.
What part of MI are you in Joe?
Metro Detroit, but we work all over the state.
I'd really like to print up some sort of card with all the applicable laws to keep in our vehicles. We have some door hangers, but there isn't anything on there about railroad trespassing, etc. Even better would be for MSPS to address and clarify this issue somehow. Railroad companies aren't being responsive to the needs on land surveyors, at least here in Michigan.
Thats a good point, bringing it up to MSPS when chapter meetings resume. We used to have "trespass cards", which certified on the face that you were an employee of 'xyz' surveying, signed by a principal, and it had the Right of Entry Act (115) on the back. Don't know if those are still issued(?) Anyways, it hardly prevented the occasional forced off under threat or the occasional call to the cops - but then nothing does.
Joe & Butch from MI
MSPS made these available to surveyors circa 1990. I don't know if they are updated, but assume they are. It's on their website in the bookstore under "LCRC Forms". I think I still have some from my days in Grand Rapids..., but usually just stuck my card in their door.
Joe & Butch from MI
Hey, yeah, I believe we have some of these too. I'll have to find one and review exactly what it addresses.
My avatar tells the whole story regarding my attitude about railroads and trespassing. Just be sure to carry water and bring cardboard if you can find it. Grainers are nicer to ride than just about anything, but a piggyback can be good. ---Slim:-)
Don
