Is there a federal law of any kind that trumps state law on railroad right of way trespassing? Had an interesting run in with a CSX employee who was threatening us with jail and a $10,000 fine today.
Those railroad police do not play. And they will press the issue. I don't know of any federal law about right of entry but I do know first hand that they will prosecute and push for high fines. Safety is their #1 stated priority.
Can't site a federal law right off the bat, but I'd bet there's at least a few.
I'm sure there are different circumstances, but generally here in Oklahoma, R.R. Property is exactly that..It is not public R/W, it's private property. And yes, I've had my earful of the BNSF "Track Police" many times.
Seriously, you can obtain permission and permits to enter their property. It's not a problem usually. I do know they take exception to a field truck being parked on their R/W .....AND they do have the phone number for the local constabulatory.
lesson learned
Just a plug for an upcoming seminar in Phoenix being sponsored by APLS regarding Railroad Right of Ways. No doubt it will address some of these issues in question. Some may know Mr Tucker
Ya, they get real pissed about guys running around everywhere with orange vests and flagging (the signal for emergency stops). Who would guess?
JRL
The average employee you run into can just yell at you and call someone else. But if it is a railroad police officer, then ya better jump. Some of the railroad dicks I know are licensed peace officers with cuffs and the power to arrest. They don't need the number to the local constabulary.
The appointment, commissioning and regulation of railroad police under Section 1704 of the U.S. Crime Control Act of 1990, provides that: "A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any one state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the U. S. Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any other state in which the rail carrier owns property."
Agreed, except state law here specifically states that surveyors can enter the railroad right of way, I think. Take a look legal experts:
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-54-122
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-462-273
How about florescent yellow vests and pink flagging?
Next time carry that with you and tell him to get bent, but you had better make sure that you have a watchman.
No solo work whatsoever, no rodman on the tracks without someone watching.
> Is there a federal law of any kind that trumps state law on railroad right of way trespassing? Had an interesting run in with a CSX employee who was threatening us with jail and a $10,000 fine today.
I've had railroad engineers inform me that when a train comes through if your near 25 feet the RR cops will be on their way.
I believe that if you have a RR issued access permit and your going to be within 25 feet then usually you need the RR issued (and you pay for) flagmen.
Joe, having surveyed in MI for many years all I can suggest is to accept that old wire fence on both sides of whatever track you're dealing with as the r/w. 10 to 1 they measure the full width within a foot. That is a can of worms you won't want to open. If it's multiple tracks, then good luck.
You are 100% correct in that you have the right to trespass to complete a BOUNDARY survey, provided you have correct signage on the truck and carry your ID. It is private property, and you are covered. Topographic survey, no. Boundary survey, yes. Unfortunately many many USGS BM's are along the RR r/w's.
BTW, Go Wings!! Go Lions!! And how 'bout dem' Tigers this year.... and good luck with your survey
I still refer to the 3 inch thickness of material handout from his 1997 seminar at Dallas Convention. Great stuff in there and he offered a world of information into the ins and outs of communicating with RR companies. It is as though they have their own language.
:good:
It was a crew of two. In fact, to make this all the more annoying, frustrating, and surreal; we were only in the right of way for a 3 minute RTK shot on a section corner. Anytime a train or maintenance vehicle comes, we always clear completely out of the right of way well in advance of any traffic on the tracks.
It was a boundary survey. The section lines run down the middle of the track for many miles. Go Tigers.
In CT...I have the right to Trespass anywhere...
but the railroad!!!
They do not like a RR spike to be set in a tie as a monument either.
My experience with getting proper permission to enter the railroad right of way is frustrating. In the past, it takes many phone calls to try to track down the right person to get permission to enter the right of way. Next, you need to pay a flagger $600-800/day, even if you are only going to be out there for an hour. Lastly, you need to have railroad liability and pollution insurance. What am I going to pollute? Different railroads have mandated anywhere from $4 to $10 million of this type of coverage. This coverage costs many thousands, if not over $10,0000.
How can you tell a property owner that his 10 acre boundary survey is going to cost this much? You can't, someone else will just do it and not get the permission and insurance.
And then there is the whole state law thing...
Well all I can say is "Different Strokes with Different Folks".
I have delt with the RR for years and have never run into any problems except when I painted red markings across the tracks for a proposed underground electric feeder. I have preformed literally hundreds of Permit surveys for power companies. I would just make a phone call and notify them of where and when I would be on site. I had no problem.
You people on the west coast just need to learn how to get along;-)
I don't know why it isn't the way you are describing out here.
We plead that we are doing a survey, not construction. Most of the time we don't need to be on the tracks. It doesn't seem to matter. Leaving phone messages and not being able to get anywhere is what really gets me. Apparently the local office people in charge don't answer their phone nor return calls. This is with multiple railroad companies. We mostly seem to deal with Norfolk Southern, CN, CSX and Comrail here.
It's been my understanding that the railroad was covered under federal jurisdiction and state right of entry laws did not apply to them. That being said, I've never really had problems dealing with the railroad people along the lines as long as we were not doing anything dangerous or unreasonable. Now, when we've worked in the railroad yard...that's a differnet story.