40 years ago a bulldozer cut a road at about a 30% grade, pretty standard for here.
A few years later as lots were being sold this was discovered to be partly on the wrong property, maybe by up to 100'.
A new Right of Way was created to relocate the road, but it was at about a 55% grade.
So about 25 years ago a new road was cut half way between the old road cut and the newer R.O.W. It's still on the wrong property and is at a 40% grade. It is now paved and is the only access for about 4 houses and about 10 vacant lots.
I located the road a few years ago and put a note on my survey -
"The Concrete Road Shown on this Survey is at a Grade Exceeding 40% and therefore is unsafe for vehicular use."
Now the lawyers have finally gotten all the property owners to agree to the terms of creating a new R.O.W. where the concrete is. They want me to produce the map to record.
I'm concerned about the liability of creating a road that surely someone will die on.
I'm also uneasy about the ethics.
FWIW, this is not the steepest road on the island, but it's close.
What would you do?
Don't worry about it?
Talk to a lawyer?
Talk to your insurance carrier?
Charge extra for the liability?
Just say no?
Larry,
Are you being asked to design road plans or to provide the horizontal location of the proposed right-of-way? As I read your post, you will be responsible for the horizontal location only, in a position that has already been agreed upon by the adjacent land owners, thus no more liability than any other right-of-way dedication. My concern is how are the previous 2 rights-of-way being disposed of? Is the municipality claiming all previous alignments, or will they be vacating the old alignments so that the land reverts back to the adjacent land owners? Looks like more work for you in the future if you can sell the concept to the municipality.
My $0.02
These are private roads called Estate Roads here.
My suggestion was to use the old road cut at 35% grade, but apparently that took up too much real estate.
Road design (grade, crown, drainage, etc.) would be the engineer's call, be he an employee of the Estate, Municipality, or a Consultant. From what I have read, you are being asked to provide the horizontal location only. Don't assume responsibility or liability for another profession unless you are holding dual certifications. Unless I am missing something, you have given an opinion on the grade, but the final decision lies with someone else. That being said, the responsibility to provide a safe road as well as the liability that is attached, is that individual's to bear.
Your liability stops with the boundary issues.
"Your liability stops with the boundary issues."
Thanks, Kevin
There is no engineer. The road design was the dozer operator.
The decision is the lawyers and the property owners. You're right, I shouldn't have the liability, but I still don't like it.
A few years ago a track hoe was coming down after digging a house site. The operator jumped clear as it slid down and over the edge. It's still down there in the "gut".
I think the most I would do, not being an engineer, is to make a statement such as "The road lies at a grade of 55%". That way you're simply stating the facts without making professional opinion.
55%????? ID like to see some soccer mom traverse that road in their jeep
The comments here are probably from people that don't have a clue about liability issues and laws in the Virgin Islands. I think you need to find appropriate local legal advice on this one. But I do enjoy hearing about concerns from around the world. Thanks.
>
> I located the road a few years ago and put a note on my survey -
> "The Concrete Road Shown on this Survey is at a Grade Exceeding 40% and therefore is unsafe for vehicular use."
>
Having read all the posts made prior to my response (~9:42 pm edt), the statement I quoted above is what scares me. Regardless of what you are doing today, haven't you already made a professional statement on the road design?
With the current question, I believe I'm with everyone else in that I would say:
As surveyed on , the existing road is at ____% slope along the centerline.
A statement of the facts, as surveyed on the ground, period.
I understand your concern but, it was not your doing.
The liability is a concern. However if you truly believe that the road will be a danger to the public, you also have a responsibility as a citizen. Just because you may not have a liability, it does not make it right. Of course, this is between you and your conscience. Personally, there are things I will not do for a fee. Yes, a person can make a choice to use the road. The kids in the car with them when they go over the cliff did not make that choice.
Thanks to all.
I have refused to do it unless a reasonable road is built.
It will cost me, but I would probably know the people who get hurt.
> Thanks to all.
> I have refused to do it unless a reasonable road is built.
> It will cost me, but I would probably know the people who get hurt.
That approach makes sense. Explain it to the clients like this. You may be happy with this today and maybe even tomorrow. But very soon you will be very unhappy with this. The grade is entirely too steep for safe travel. If someone you love is hurt because of the road grade you will look back and wish someone had told you about the danger. I'm telling you now, before it is too late.
Larry P
Larry you are a good man.
> Larry you are a good man.
Try not to spread that around too much. Would hate to ruin my reputation. 😉
But seriously, isn't our highest responsibility to protect the public? Can we honestly say we protected the public if we do whatever a client asks? In cases like this, I can see a good argument that any PLS who would participate in creating an easement with a 40% grade failed in their duty to protect the public.
I know Larry Best and he isn't the sort that would do that.
Larry P
I meant to say the Larrys are good men.
What's your conscience worth?
It's about more than liability.
Sounds like you made the right call.
