they relaxed the rules in WA and now an electronic signature on a pdf is ok
That is exactly what happened. He fancied himself a mortgage broker, and a small time realtor. We are in a small market, and what goes around comes around. Yes, he came crawling back. He knew that we knew. He paid up. We could have messed with his world, but chose not to.
Hard to stop people that use things for an exhibit, and/or record things as a deed attachment. We don't like it, but can't do a whole lot about it. When you record a survey that is different.
In Clark County, WA, at least, surveys are recorded in a unique set of books, and only after review by the County Surveyor. You can record a dinner napkin in the deed books as long as it is of the proper size and you pay the fee. Not so much for surveys and plats. Soooo.... someone could record an 8 1/2 x 11 copy of an unsigned survey check print in the deed books, but my responsibilities to RCW 58 are not complete until I've got something (on Arch C size) in the survey files.
Never release a preliminary doc without marking it as such. It can get you in front of the Board in some States.
Clark County has a County Surveyor...that checks surveys? The person at the counter at King County has a ruler, and that is about it.
I want to see more things recorded, not less. IMHO any licensed PLS should be able to add a record of anything they like. In some sense this is true, the records of the PLSO are filled with non-recorded (and non-recordable) surveys and various other survey records.
I would love to see it mandated that all ALTA surveys be submitted as digital files to the PLSO and that they be cataloged into their database.
Clark County has a County Surveyor...that checks surveys?
Yes, Ken Paul is a deputized auditor. Check out Their Web Site
I was as shocked as you, when I first heard this, too.
I wish every county in the state did this...
In Alaska you are required to seal and sign any survey document (Plat, ROS, legal description, comps) that finds it's way out of your shop and isn't clearly identified as "Preliminary" or "Draft" or the like.
And the recorder isn't supposed to record survey documents without an original signature.
How is it supposed to work in your jurisdiction @sean-r-m?
I had something similar happen to me. I had given a neighbor a sketch that I had made the had some distances shown from the property line to the corners of the building. They took that sketch to the clerk and had it recorded.?ÿ
Clark County has a County Surveyor...that checks surveys?
They do. They sometimes return the survey, checked, the same day it is submitted. They rarely, if ever,?ÿ need more than a few days to do it. I believe that Cowlitz County (which also has a real live full time County Surveyor)?ÿ will do the same, if asked.
The Portland area counties in Oregon all take weeks. Then they check and comment on your amendments. Round and round.?ÿ
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I would love to see it mandated that all ALTA surveys be submitted as digital files to the PLSO and that they be cataloged into their database.?ÿ
Have?ÿ to disagree with that.?ÿ An ALTA Survey is commissioned?ÿ by private parties/Title companies/Banks usually in contemplation of a transaction?ÿ or financing activity and may reveal information that is sensitive in nature and damage the parties involved if?ÿ made public.?ÿ Even the mere fact of recordation serves notice to third parties that something's cooking concerning the parcel.?ÿ An ALTA Survey is therefore a private matter and should not be subject to mandatory placement in the public record.
Two caveats concerning recording ALTAs though.?ÿ The parties involved may voluntarily record their ALTA Survey; as noted above you can record your grocery shopping list if you so wish, although I can't imagine the rationale behind doing so.?ÿ And, if the surveyor discovers a material discrepancy in the boundary,?ÿ in progressive States he/she's duty bound to?ÿ file a Record of Survey addressing the problem.?ÿ If the surveyor replaces lost/obliterated monument(s) in substantially record position, he/she's required to file a Corner Record.?ÿ I'm in agreement with such Statutes;?ÿ they decrease the contemporary?ÿ "orphan" monument of no record problem.
I've done hundreds of ALTAs in my career; they're bread and butter work, maybe 20% of my portfolio.?ÿ They're pleasant in that the client usually is a Title Co./Bank/real estate development corporation and is educated concerning surveying services, not lowballers,?ÿ pay in full upon delivery and not "we need it by Friday" types.?ÿ They're also repeat customers if?ÿ you provide competent service and there's good money in providing an update a few years later if another transaction comes up.?ÿ The "big boys" (hotels, industrial plants, office complexes, golf courses, etc.) involving millions of dollars, simultaneously order a boundary ROS if the last boundary survey is of poor quality, decades old or otherwise suspicious, which can boost the fee by 100%.?ÿ
They also have a teamwork attitude, not a how can we screw you if your survey has defects.?ÿ For example, I did a hotel ALTA and showed an outdoor swimming pool in the quad surrounded by high rise room buildings.?ÿ Um, I got a call from their appraiser that there's no pool there, just an outdoor cabana bar jungle garden.?ÿ I'd Google Earthed the site and only saw heavy tropical vegetation, didn't bother to eyeball the interior of the building complex and pulled the pool location off of the set of original construction asbuilts (used for interior building wall locations also), long since replaced.?ÿ My heart sank as I realized my mistake, but the appraiser said just correct the mistake, issue a corrected ALTA and we'll destroy the original.?ÿ Gratis and a handshake.?ÿ That's teamwork.
ALTAs are a private matter, let's keep it that way, the players are usually on the same page and mandatory recordation encroaches on private rights concerning how to conduct business transactions.
I feel for you because I've had my information bootlegged too.
When I do a subdivision for a client, I transport my original document to its various review locations and upon approval, I record the document myself. Most folks don't know all the steps necessary to get that done. It's easier and more likely to be complete and correctly done if I do it.
I was hired to do a subdivision of a recently subdivided property. The map on record bore, instead of the county planning commissioner's signature of approval, a note stating that the map was merely an 'incidental boundary line change' and that no signature was needed. There it was on record as big as you please. I didn't even notice it at first. In fact, I didn't notice it until I submitted my subdivision for review.
Head planning guy told me that the map of record (which contained a parcel I was intending to cut up a little) was void and had to be resubmitted.?ÿ He was the guy who was supposed to have signed it and when he looked up a plan of reference on my plan he didn't recognize the plan at all.
I reproduced the previous surveyor's entire plan and submitted for the old map and the new subdivision at the same time. It was absolutely bananas. Then there was on-lot septic disposal everywhere and wells and DEP and a holding tank with a pump contract. That project dragged on for 2 and a half years before we reached end-game.
That's why you don't let other people do your job for you no matter how nice they are. I have a hard enough time getting these things done myself and I supposedly know what I'm doing.
